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Hello board!
I find myself in China until January, and I'm planning to source a couple of Guangxi hones while I'm here.
Can anyone recommend any good sources in China?
I've checked out Taobao etc and found this one
https://panduoduod.world.taobao.com/...26197828HeQDNm
prices seem reasonable, about rmb200. Wondering if anyone has any direct experience or tips. I'm ok looking at sites in Chinese.
Thanks!
What we (myself included) tend to forget about China is, it's like Europe or US in size, and from geologic perspective China might be even richer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montgomery
I would be 100% sure that there are dozens of awesome types of stones that overshadow the Guangxi hone.
Woodworkers, butchers, people who sharpen as a trade, or even people from taverns that cook or live in any area might know/they are good places to ask.
Just keep in mind that the stone they are thinking might be a man made one, and, that basic sharpening is about coarse stones, and I don't know the word for polishing stones, the ones we want, in Chinese.
You probably know what I'm righting already, but it's something to keep in mind anyhow.
Should you find anything interesting, send me a PM, I will be interested in these "new" types of stones.
Edit;
If you are looking for the classic Guangxi hones, I would assume that there is a market in China, and you can find them in a shop directly. A cooking utensils/general goods/woodworking/any shop that hones might be available.
And, finding a stone in a shop directly is by far, far a better option as you can touch and see the stone by yourself, and check for inclusions or hardness or size, the best option really.
I spend a lot of time there and have never seen one for sale in a market or store but have never really sought one out either. Never saw any kind of sharpening shop either. I would think that your journey might start with asking a hotel chef who/how/where they get their knives sharpened.
Most folks there are pretty self-sufficient for those types of things. Also disposable knives are very cheap.
You need to know people to “discover” good quality anything. The ones on taobao are legit, if you get it from the right vendor, but 200 is wayyyy too much. I was paying around 40 for mine I think. Do you have someone that can read Chinese and can help you with the taobao site? (Do not use the English version.)
======== Pandod
if google translate is ok - [rus]:
Pandod
Pandod YC
-- it's like a classic slate, but a bit softer than welsh LM. And a bit rougher.
Nothing special.
Pandod JY
-- it's like a sandstone. Finer than hindostan (about 2500jis +\-), softer.
No inclusions, no veins.
And it's too soft actually, but it's harder on the side (perpendicular to the layers).
It's fine for 5CrMoV steel, but fjr 440A of harder - too slow.
There is a scratch size variation.
Pandod XG
Just another sandstone like previous one.
A bit rougher.
A bit harder.
Still a bit finer than hindostan.
[BZ]
1500-2000 (豹子山砥)
Big inclusions, veins - not for razor definitly.
As I could remember aoto is faster.
[JL] 800-1000 (绝路谷砥)
- finer than previous one -_-
Still not pure enought for razors, but better than previous one.
[HS] 6000 (火山岩)
just a slate, that foster than welsh LM.
Don't like it.
[SJ] Sanjiang (三江砥)
Bluestone like c12k, but rougher - about 6-7KGrit approx.
[XK] Xikou
Garbage.
Withdrawn from sale.
So it's just average stones.. And there are some troubles with inclusions and veins, etc.
Should buy a jnat instead :)
======== Keywords
I couldn't find any system in cnat names :(
Just can share some keywords:
磨刀石 = whetstone
天然磨刀石 = natural whetstone
水磨石 = water whetstone ( Shuǐmóshí )
青石 = bluestone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluestone )
天然油石 = natural oil stone
油石 ( yóushí ) - oil stone (could be used as synonym of 磨刀石 )
浆石 ( jiāngshí ) = slurry stone
高档天然磨刀石 ( gāodàngtiānránmódāoshí ) = high quality natural sharpening stone
镜面抛光 - mirror polished
细磨刀砖 - fine sharpening\polishing stone
广西 (Guǎngxī ) - Guanxi
剃刀石 - razor sharpening stone
You should'n trust words about gritness or that "this stone is a razor sharpening one"..
Sometimes it's not even natural as description says. Or vice versa.
Be carefull.
====== Stores
- Dazu mountain
https://13883335519.taobao.com
search
Bluestones, yellowstones, synt., sandstones.
- Green drops stone
滴水青磨刀石
https://shop125601052.taobao.com/
search
Sandstones, Bluestone green drops, yellow slate 5000 grit, synt.
- Green drops sharpening pro store
水滴青专业磨刀铺
https://135183.taobao.com/
Seller: callmebush
search
Bluestones, Bluestone gree drops 1200, bluestone green drops 3000, sandstones
- https://shop34934912.world.taobao.com/
"callmebush" again
bluetone green drops \ black\ etc..
- Linyi city Raymond grinding tool business
search
Bluestones, synt
- 桃花 江 磨刀石 / Peach blossom River Whetstone/Taohuajiang sharpening
Seller: 西施旗袍唐装 / Xi Shi cheongsam Tang
search
Stones from Hunan.
Yellow stones, hunan green
- 舞凤山砚石社 / Wufengshan Stone Society / Dancing phoenix mountain
search
- 冠宇磨料磨具 / guanyumoju
search
===== sungari stone
鬆花石 or 松花
[rus] Sungari
It's not for razors.
where to find
oh. Forgot to say about Guanxi:
Guanxi selected (C12K)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/887/2...46701ff4_z.jpg
木井方 - mujingfang (can't translate well.. "wood Well square"??)
天然水磨石
or
- 天然 - natural
- 水磨石 - water sharpening stone
https://detail.1688.com/offer/561429843691.html
新款木井方家用磨刀石菜刀油石天然石开刃木工精磨金刚水磨石双面
There is no mention about "Guanxi" or "bluestone" - so sad.
So you should search for brand name "mujingfang"
1688.com search
taobao search
Mujingfang site: http://www.mujingfang.com/
stone: Woodwell Tools Manufacturing Ltd.
Actually there are some unlabelled c12k on taobao but i don't know how to understand is it c12k or just a rouger\softer blask\grey slate (like "TianRanMoDaoShi 2000 grit"). So "mujingfang" - is the easiest way to find c12k.
Botanic: many thanks! All the information you posted is very useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Botanic
Thanks also to the others who have commented. As a general point about going to cookshops/woodworking tool suppliers etc, or getting to know chefs/woodworkers: as most people with decent experience in China know, people with significant expertise and finesse in these kinds of fields are very difficult to find, even if they are there. And even if you find them, don't expect them to give up information for no reason. I would use this approach in a western country, but in China I'm not even going to try. I'm here for five months this time, which is nowhere near long enough for that kind of project.
I'm not going to underestimate Taobao, my guess is that there are a lot of decent stones in China where the suppliers find it difficult to get to a market that understands what they have, and selling on taobao is a good way for these guys to try to sell what they have.
I will investigate and post reports!
Thanks for the response!Quote:
Originally Posted by ffourteen
What stones did you buy for 40 yuan? Also very curious to know where you bought them.
Luckily my Chinese is sufficient to navigate Taobao in Chinese.
It would be nice :)Quote:
I will investigate and post reports!
kinda I disappointed with my current results..
===== Stone types
As i can understand, the most expensive cnat is Pandod mark + "Agate".
so there are:
- Pandod mark
- "Agate 10000 grit"
weir stuff, don't want to try
grey-black "natural flowers", "beril"\green, red, etc
Keith V. Johnson
Chinese Beryl Hone - Natural ??? 10k ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5q1DymKUvU
[rus] grey-black "natural flowers"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcKnIiwyIGE- white "Onyx", "Syntetic Onyx 10000grit", etc
non abrasive stuff for me- Sungari
beautiful looking stones
but it's about knife not razor - inclusions- GreeDrops
from callmebush
"#3000"
"bluestone dark #1200"
but you can find keywords "green drops" in the description of a completely different stone.
You can easily determine this stone by its appearance.
It's ok for knife with hardness below to 55HRC.
But it's not about razor - inclusions.- Bluestones with different gritness (1,2,3,5 KGrit)
I think they are all the same. May be a bit different by hardness and dense - but that's all.
"TianRanMoDaoShi" mark ([rus] review)
is nice. Both samples I've used (from 2013 and 2018) is the same by qualities.
It's a bit softer than PHIG\C12K - about purple welsh hardness.
Grit about 6-7K or lower i suppose.
"Rehoo bluestone 5000" - is about the same, but a bit more hard and dense.
I belive there is also c12k could be found.- Yellow stone\slate
very soft stones.
But looks like not every yellow cnat is the same..
So there are:
very soft yellow slate, that used to be a slurry stone for C12K (problems with inclusions).
soft yellow slate "4000-5000",
"pulp stone 5000" (I've bought this one https://aliexpress.com/item/8000/32889564219.html it's on way)- Green grey slate
different gritness
1200, 1500, 3000...
[rus]review
Just a rouge normal slate. Yes with rouge surface (used chinese dia plate 240 grit) it's about 2KGrit at max.
Not quite speedy.
So i could not find anything expensive, good, unique like arkansas, baikalit, washita, japanese stones, coticule, etc.
Best examples about purple welsh slate level.
==== Tips
Just a small tips:
- you should search not only tao, but also 1688.com, tmall.com, etc.
- aliexpress is quite poor.. and too disordered.
- so, as i can understand, "pulp stone" isn't a name of type of stone,
Green drops - the same.
Guanxi, ... etc. There is no system at all.
All you can use to define stone: mine, appearance, seller.- search for off. stores.
Because secondhand dealers try to rebrand stones or just lost detailed information, mix with descriptions about differen ston types..- try to ask about province where the stone was mined - it'll help to understand it it the same stone you have or could be a different one.
- read about sellers rating system and "how to make a good buy on taobao" (youtube, google, etc).
- actually, google translation is enought to buy something on tao and to talk with sellers.
========
That's all i can say.
Have a good luck :)
I was buying the ones Botanic posted a picture of, and getting them on taobao. Though they don’t say guangxi, the mujingfang stones are the same stones that are sold in the west as the C12k or cnat or guangxi or whatever else (if I remember correctly the box is marked as from guangdong, but that was company location, not stone source). I’m not saying they’re good, just saying those are the stones ;)
Make sure you get the water stone, not the oil stone. I wouldn’t worry too much about negative comments on performance… most (all?) people in China aren’t using these for straight razors. Just go for the ones with the most comments, since those are more likely real vendors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montgomery
Well, thanks to Botanic, ffourteen, and everyone else for the advice. After doing a bit of research, I have pretty much decided that the only stone I'm going to buy in China is a 木井方 (mujingfang) waterstone. I've found others on Taobao, but nothing that gets my antennas twitching. I haven't heard from anywhere that there are great stones waiting to be discovered, so I'll just buy that one and give it a try.
If you go to the fish market in Chengdu China they have excellent hones at really great prices. You can also buy some really great knives at reasonable prices. If you go to Chengdu you have to check out the fish market. If you have room in your suitcase I want you to bring me back some things:rofl2:
I got the Mujingfang (木井方) stone:
Attachment 299482
I have noticed something interesting in the packaging and labelling. If we look closely in the following video
https://youtu.be/m-aNciKhI8Y
the box in the video clearly states that the stone is from Guangxi Province, once in Chinese, and once in English:
Attachment 299483Attachment 299484
However, other stones in this thread, and mine, do not state this, replacing Guangxi / 廣西 (广西) with 木井方, as you can see in the following photo:
Attachment 299485Attachment 299486
I have searched Taobao for a version with 廣西 rather than 木井方 on the box, but have not been successful. The obvious explanation is that the Mujingfang stones are no longer from Guangxi. I did wonder if there was some sort of branding infringement, and my stone is produced by a different entity than the ones marked 廣西, but if so, why be concerned about stating an accurate origin on the box? Very curious to know if anyone has an answer to this.
I have tried the stone briefly (without lapping it). I was able to get a decent edge, but no better and probably not as good as the edge I get off my 6k King stone, so I don't think it quite makes it as a finisher for razors. However, under the loupe, the scratch pattern looks very even, so no complaints about the quality of the stone, which makes it a good natural stone for the price, which was RMB25+6, about $4.50 including shipping. I'll hang on to it and I'm sure I'll find a use for it.
Anyone apart from Botanic and ffourteen have any experience with these stones? Am I missing something, is there any way to get more out of it?
All said and done, I think my search for Chinese stones stops here for now...
Hmmm? looks exactly like the hone i bought (and then sold) from Woodcraft.
Attachment 299497
Your box is different to mine. On the top, above and to the right of the black text, in red and within a red border, yours says '廣西' (广西, Guangxi), whereas mine says '木井方' （Mujingfang). Nowhere on my box is there any mention of Guangxi.Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin
Here is yours: Attachment 299526
And here is mine: Attachment 299525
Attachment 299908
Well, after reading around, mainly on this forum, and in the light of the big variations in the Mujingfang stones, I have bought five of them, the idea being to try them all, and select one or two that work for me, then either sell or give the others away. You can see different colours in the picture, on the far right there is one darker stone which is harder, though it is not consistently hard across the face, there are some soft areas too. The other four seem softer, (from the left) one is a greenish grey, two are a slightly lighter blueish grey, and one is in between the lighter bluish grey ones and the darker harder stone. The softer ones can be marked by a fingernail, the hard one cannot.
I see that there are different ways of getting the best out of the different variants of this stone:
https://sharprazorpalace.com/hones/1...one-12k-5.html page 5 #41
So the plan is get them home somehow, get them all lapped, and then do a bit of experimenting to see what I can get out of them. It will cost more to ship them back to Europe than I paid for them...
I'm willing to wager the hard one will be paydirt. That said, if they've changed source as the change from Gaungxi to Mujingfang would indicate, I would imagine we're dealing with a slightly different beast than the C12k we're familiar with.
Cursory search of Mujingfang leads me to believe it's a tool maker:
"Mujingfang gathered the best plane makers from around the country and brought them to their Hong Kong factory from where they supplied master craftsmen throughout South East Asia. Recently, they decided to offer their handmade planes to Western woodworkers."
Perhaps they bought the mine, or just a large chunk of the stones, and gave them their own in-house name instead of relying on the Guangxi label we're familiar with?
That is my understanding, I don't think 'Mujingfang' is a place or geographical denomination. I think you are right, the difference may just be a branding thing for Chinese and overseas markets. The stones don't seem any different to the ones labelled as 'Guangxi'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal
I just purchased another Guangxi hone from WoodCraft and mine still said Guangxi. Interestingly the stone I just received doesn't look anything like the one I purchased almost 5 years ago. The one I just received almost looks like a Thuri stone color wise, I haven't taken pictures side by side yet I will get some and post them on here. Has anyone else noticed this issue?
Matt...
Guangxi is a region of China that is approximately the size of the state of Oregon. There could be multiple mines in the region, all selling stones labeled as Guangxi. There could also be mines in Guangxi that are selling stones under their own trade name.
Thuringia is an area of Germany that is approximately 7% the size of Guangxi. Yet, people say that stones mined just a few miles away from the original mines from which vintage Escher stones were extracted are different than the original Escher stones. No wonder people say that Guangxi stones have variable quality. Even original Escher stones, like all natural stones, vary in hardness, color, and honing properties.
Yes indeed. In fact, stones from different parts of the same seam can be different. I notice with some of my stones that one side can be very different to the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by RayClem
I'm still wondering why the same company appears to be labelling the same stones in subtly different ways. Particularly, as you say, as labelling them as 'Guangxi' stones doesn't really tell us much about them anyway.
Just to build on the point made previously, I watched a video of an older gentleman working a natural hone mine in Japan. In the hole he had carved out you could see stone colors ranging from a dark blue near the top to a yellowish color nearer the floor. In this case, different color was different hone quality and would in part dictate the price and purpose of the hone. But the point is that it's quite striking how fast natural stone can change, even when it's all dug out of the same source and the hole is barely large enough for a man to stand upright in.Quote:
Originally Posted by mlvallance
