My little hone

Picked this up today for $5.00.. Almost feels like the light side is smoother.. Been trying to lap both sides but been pretty tough going.. Any help would be appreciated.. Black side has a chip im trying to lap out, cream side pretty good except a tiny rough area.. thanks fellas..ScottAttachment 302076Attachment 302077Attachment 302078Attachment 302079 I only have the Norton 4000/8000 cpmbo a Naniwa ss 12000 and a Pike barber hone.. Just starting to do my own razors from start to finish.. Question is? Is this small combo a Coticule? Both sides are smooth as glass.. Not sure how a Coti is used different to my synthetics? thanks, SMW

Looks like a Coti to me but im no pro. Also, they dont always glue a bbw to a cotie. Sometimes is just a dark stone not worth honing on. Hopefully someone with more experiance jumps in.

This is not a coticule/bbw natural. Belgian Blue slurry is almost purple-ish. The black is a (slate?) base for the coticule side. The black is not intended for honing purposes.

Thanks fella's.. Next question is.. Since i do not have a slurry stone for this (1.5×6) little guy can i use 400 grit sandpaper for slurry? thanks

Some will use a small fine diamond plate. They are about the size of a credit card. But im not too sure if that messes with the garnets? I think thats what is in a Coti. But i will step back and let someone who doesnt HATE Coties answer. Damn rock! They just piss me off.

With sandpaper i think id be worried about the abrasives coming off the paper. BTW, they do glue BBW to the back of Coticules. But mostly its a useless piece of slate. The ones cut from the mine with both layers cost more as there is not as much of it.

If I was you I'd try 10-15 strokes on the coticule with water or lather or oil after the 12k. If it improves the edge you have a finisher.
If not you can muck around with slurry. Maybe it's a bevel setter but avoid using any form of sandpaper. A slurry stone or diamond plate is the go.

Looks like a coticule. Could even be a good one. The back seems to be slate, so pay no attention to it at this moment.

I would dress the "yellow" side with abrasive powder (if it is not straight, I start with 80 grit since some are quite hard). Finish with 800-1200. I have some I only use like this as final finisher, always on running water.

If you like to try it with slurry, get a diamond plate, make sure it's worn-out first (using it on a novaculite worked best for me).

Sandpaper is a no go mostly due to the fact that even the very best do give some particles to the surface at some point.

Since you are new to all of these, try finding a friend with the proper stuff and test. Not worth buying yet since you don't know if you need them or not.

Looks like a coticule to me. You can pick up small creditcard sized diamond plates to flatten, chamfer the edges and raise slurry. They aren’t very expensive.

Hard to say whether the other side is schist or a BBW without a better and closer picture. There are natural BBW/coticule combinations and there are also combos in which a BBW has been glued to a coticule.

I use a Norton 4000/8000 and then follow with a coticule. If you do a progression on the coticule that ends with pure water (some say finish with light laps on a dry coticule), I think you may find that you get a comfortable edge. Cotis being natural stones vary a lot. Maybe you lucked out and got a nice finisher. You will have to play with it to learn what your stone can do.

I'm a fan of a regular ol' slurry stone to raise slurry,

although I rarely use mine with slurry anymore

Nice little coticule there, my bet would be an older mined coticule due to the discoloration on the sides and edges.

Older mined coticules were mostly attached to Belgian Blue rock; not necessarily hone worthy, as honing on Belgian Blue Whetstone is a relatively modern thing and they used to back up coticule with whatever Blue rock they had at hand.

But this looks quite dark for BBW, rather like slate, as mentioned; so I'm guessing this is a homemade solution.

What size is it, anyway? It seems very much to be around 30 X 100-120 mm, which was quite a standard size for small Thüringer hones, if I'm not mistaken.

Keep in mind, this is very much spitballing though, as it's hard to say anything other than 'Yes, the creamy side is most likely a coticule.'

Personally though, I would definitely test both sides, as you maybe (just maybe) have a homemade coticule-Thüringer combination. Which would be totally awesome. I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

I would test it by going through your regular progression, then add one layer of electrical tape (to make sure the edge is all test hone) and do 30-50 light X-strokes on water only.

That could be a reglue to a slate of some kind that is usable. The glue used looks similar to what Ardennes uses, I would hazard a guess it is one of their older ones.

You can get just a slurry stone from Ardennes or The superior shave.

My preference for lapping coti's is to start low at 150 grit sandpaper if there is any serious dishing, gouges or chips that would effect honing. Then move up to 800 or 1000 grit. Some of the super hard ones will take a little longer. Then rinse the stone off under running water, rubbing with your palm to remove any stuck on grit or slurry.

I try slurry here and there, but am never really that successful with it on any of my coti's. I get my best results taking a razor to an 8k and honing until the edge feels and sounds smooth over the edge. Typically 100-200 laps with a lot of water.

Looks like a Coticule with Blue Slate backer, the backer not intended for honing, so don’t waste time lapping. Most Thuringia stones are generally much thicker, coticule blue slate backers were thin, like yours. It was probably just re-glued.

What are you lapping it with? A Coticule should lap easily with 320 -400 grit, a 300-400 diamond plate should easily lap it.

Do not use sandpaper to slurry, you will get grit in the slurry, use a diamond plate or better, buy a coticule slurry stone. You can buy one for $10-15, just google coticule slurry stones.

Learning a coticule can be difficult, because stones vary so much, and you are learning a completely different honing technique, (honing with slurry). It can be a challenging road, do not make it more difficult introducing a variable you can not control, (lose grit from sand paper).

There are tons of good video and threads on honing on coticules, look them up. Coticule. Be is a good first resource from knowledgeable coticule user/experts. They can also direct you to a slurry stone vendor.

Nice find, I use naturals after a well honed 8k edge. You can bevel set with this and other naturals, but why?

I’ll get shot at for saying this (ducks and hides) but I don’t think that’s a coticule. It looks like one of the synthetic barber hones that are glued to some type of slate. Some guys call them synthetic Cotis or man made Cotis. Whatever they are, they are very good stones. You can always confirm this by doing an acid test with something like CLR. But I’ve been wrong many times before, so holster your weapons. :rofl2:

Maybe, I melted one once, a 2X3 when I sprayed it with Oven cleaner. Literally it just melted, I rinsed it off as quick as I could in a tub of water, then it just fell apart.

I have a couple of the stamped Record ones made from coticules, 4x6 I think. I have honed on them and was not impressed, I think they were more of a tool stone, chisels and plane blades, which is why they are stamped “Record”.

Thanks for all the responses you guys... Though this ia just a gues with looking at other stones qnd what you guys have said i am pretty surw its a coti and a pretty nice on at that... Going to grab a slurry stone from Superior tomorrow but in the mean time i used plain water on top and was surprised that i felt a small deference in edge sharpness... I could get used to this rock for aure ..Thank you, SmW

Looking at the surface of the stone - Dcaddo could have been right. Looks somehow like the man made cotis. But lookign at the sides, you can see saw marks and you can see clearly the glue line and the glue. And the man made cotis have never been glued to slate as far as I know.

The stones I am speaking of (whatever you call them) all have those straight up and down saw marks, and if you look closely, the saw marks on the lighter side and the slate will line up. I believe they were poured on top of the slate and then cut to size. I have several here but they are in storage. I’ll see if I can drag one out tonight.

If it's something like this, chances are it's a coticule. These are 7 different stones. AC, variuos belgischer brocken, some newer, some older. The variety of the backing (mostly slate/black shist here) is pretty much non existent. Thing is, unless all started to pour coticules from something, the saw marks could be irrelevant. Some finish them, some don't. My guess is that they cut them after making big chunks anyway and they even sell the leftovers.

This being said, man made black and white stones (this is how I always knew them) are real. It's hard to tell from those images alone.

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Originally Posted by Dcaddo1

The stones I am speaking of (whatever you call them) all have those straight up and down saw marks, and if you look closely, the saw marks on the lighter side and the slate will line up. I believe they were poured on top of the slate and then cut to size. I have several here but they are in storage. I’ll see if I can drag one out tonight.

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Hi neighbor! Good to see you.

Cheers, Steve

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Originally Posted by Steve56

Hi neighbor! Good to see you.

Cheers, Steve

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Howdy, Steve! Enjoying this wonderful weather? Lol.

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Originally Posted by Dcaddo1

Howdy, Steve! Enjoying this wonderful weather? Lol.

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Tell me anout it, wet, cold, and rainy, with a flood watch for tomorrow. Next week it will probably be 90....

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Originally Posted by hatzicho

Looking at the surface of the stone - Dcaddo could have been right. Looks somehow like the man made cotis. But lookign at the sides, you can see saw marks and you can see clearly the glue line and the glue. And the man made cotis have never been glued to slate as far as I know.

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Preface this by saying I am not a hone expert by any means but I have to agree. That looks man-made to me. I've just been through this with stones of my own and people very often are hoping that they're natural stones when they are looking at pictures and responding but in reality it's man-made. Sometimes we see what we want to see. I'm not saying with any degree of certainty that it's man-made but the surface of it looks like it to me. In some ways you're better off if it is. Man-made stones I have found to be more consistent than the natural ones. Mother nature didn't have you or sharpening in mind when forming stones. The men that made the man-made stones did, absolutely did and I believe in them. Not knocking natural stones but I have found it to be more like primitive camping. It has value for nostalgia's sake but it certainly isn't how primitive man would have done it. If they had the choice they would take the couch and the TV and probably the man-made stone. If it works well for you then it's good. Sometimes we get caught up in what something is more than what it does.

David knows his cotis well, lol. Of course we’re all looking at an image which complicates the diagnosis.

Cheers, Steve

Hi fellas.... Long week so I couldnt get a chance to get on the forum... But thanks for the replies.. Always appreciate it... Is there a way I can check to see if this is natural or man made? Thanks