I think I'm close but...

Continuing on with my honing journey and taking what I've learned from the advice I've been given here as well as the individual I know who taught me how to hone, I tried my hand at a NOS wedge blade this weekend.

This blade barely had a bevel to it, and it was effectively dull.

I spent two hours on this: 1 hour on the 1k King and then another hour on the 4k/8k Norton followed by pasted strop --> linen --> leather.

1k King:

I tried circles (clockwise/counter clockwise), followed by edge leading/trailing strokes with the blade at an angle, and finally finishing off with edge leading strokes with the blade straight. I was keeping an eye on the bevel using my Belomo loupe and I did see the bevel taking shape, however, I was quite distraught after the 1k as the blade couldn't shave any hair off my arm. I moved on to the 4k/8k.

4k/8k Norton

Similar technique on the 4k. I definitely noticed metal particles in the water as I was doing this. After about half an hour I got the blade to where I could shave arm hair, however one side was definitely sharper than the other side and unfortunately the bevel wasn't straight across, it was wavy (tried to capture this in pics). Bevel under the loupe had much finer striations however.

Spent maybe 15mins on the 8k with just edge leading/trailing strokes. Blade got a bit sharper and the bevel striations appeared smoother. At this point I figured I'd see what I kind of an edge I procured and then try again post shave.

After stropping, I was quite surprised to have received a decent shave from the blade. No tugging or pulling, but it also wasn't exactly a close shave either (this was WTG). Past attempts at honing gave me a very uncomfortable shave so I feel like I have finally made some progress but clearly I still have some issues.

How do I proceed from this point? Do I go back to the 1k or spend more time on the 4k/8k? How do I get a straight bevel rather than one that's wavy (I'm assuming this is an issue of pressure)? How do I fix the issue of one side of the blade being sharper than the other?

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I know nothing about whatever type of blade that is. But the wavy could be from the grind of the blade or from uneven pressure. Where is the rest of the blade :)

We’re you using the stropper to hone?

You don't necessarily have to fix it. If it shaves uniformly it doesn't need fixing ;)
As Gasman says, it could be uneven grind or pressure that made the grind uneven.
For me, the safest way to hone a blade, any type of blade is to make sure the whole blade shaves arm hair after the 1k stone. I expect most people's arm hair are somewhat similar. That's the 90% of the job, the rest of the stones come after a successful bevel and requires far fewer passes.
To tell you the truth I also have a blade like this, and intend to do what you were doing, but I expect it will take some time, so I'm postponing it.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

We’re you using the stropper to hone?

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So I started out with the stropper attached and then I ended up removing it as I couldn't do the circles with it or hone at an angle. Don't your stroppers widen towards the end?

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Originally Posted by Vasilis

You don't necessarily have to fix it. If it shaves uniformly it doesn't need fixing ;)
As Gasman says, it could be uneven grind or pressure that made the grind uneven.
For me, the safest way to hone a blade, any type of blade is to make sure the whole blade shaves arm hair after the 1k stone. I expect most people's arm hair are somewhat similar. That's the 90% of the job, the rest of the stones come after a successful bevel and requires far fewer passes.
To tell you the truth I also have a blade like this, and intend to do what you were doing, but I expect it will take some time, so I'm postponing it.

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I'm a perfectionist so seeing a wavy bevel really bothers me :banghead: My guess is that pressure is the issue as I did experiment with different pressure as I went along. I'll have to work on this the next time I have a go at this.

I was not able to shave hair after the 1k which is why I was surprised that the blade was capable of shaving at all but I understand why shaving off the 1k is important before progressing. Should I go back to the 1K now?

These blades hone, more or less, just like a straight razor. If anything they should be easier as you don't have to worry about a shoulder or scales but it's been many years since I attempted to hone a straight.

My strippers anre quite flat and sit well on the hone. I also have a modified shavette that works well as a handle. It was a wreck hair shaper in its first life. The spine is quite wide and it did not take much coaxing to get it to take the wedge blades. I have honed both by pushing the blade on the hone and by using a handle. Without the handle it is very difficult to concentrate the effort on the edge, with the handle you can use torque to your advantage. Also with a swooping stroke you can bring a very mild smile to the blade, which I also like.

From the look of the bevel, I would suspect a holding issue. While I have never honed a razor like that freehand, I would use a holder.

I have honed small finger plane blades (about that size) free hand, with single directional strokes, with shop made wooden angle guide/ holders and with an edge pro. All with good results and even bevels.

If you want perfect bevels you need a jig, Holding the blade and moving the stone (a knife honing jig) is the easiest way to get perfect bevels on small blades. The smaller the blade the more critical holding the blade in a fixed angle is.

If the edge is not cutting hair at 1k the bevel is not fully set. Look straight down on the edge, any reflection is where the bevels are not meeting.

Alright so the next time I try this I'll use the stropping holder.

The stropper essentially slips onto the back of the spine which allows you to hold the blade similar to a straight razor in order to strop it. While the portion of the stropper which makes contact with the spine is flat, it bulges out towards the handle which makes it difficult to do anything other than single directional strokes if I'm using it to hone.

I spent 1 hour on the 1k. At this point I don't know what else I could possibly do on the 1k to get it to cut hair. I'm assuming more strokes won't do much...

While conceptually I get the whole "look straight down on the edge" thing, I honestly don't see anything when I do this, it just looks like an edge. I've seen pictures of what it's supposed to look like, but those were taken from a microscope, not sure if it looks different through a loupe.

If you are honing freehand, the angle is constantly changing and you may not be honing to the edge or completely across the edge with each stroke.

What you should see is the same thing, reflection of light , shinny spots. In strong light you can see that with the naked eye. Pick up a $10 Carson 60-100x, Micro Max and you will see a lot more of what is going on at the edge.

Also strop the edge to remove any flashing , then look at it. Holding the blade in the proper angle is critical.

Hmmm, I am lost.

Compared to the rest of the steel of the blade, the bevel is all shiny which can be seen from the pictures. Is that not how it's supposed to be?

Shiny spots on the edge, not the bevels. Look straight down on the edge, roll the blade a few degrees each way.

How much magnification are you using?

The first two pics are a bevel not fully set. The last one is fully set, notice no shiny reflections at the edge. You will see 4 tiny white dots in the last photo. One near the left side and 3 clustered near the right side about a third of the way down the picture. That is dust near the edge.

The edge is at a slight upward angle from left to right. The bevels are now meeting and no longer reflecting light. The edge is the straight line,the bottom of the shiny band.


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If you load your last pic into a photo editor, and enlarge to its max, it looks like you have a double bevel on the left side. Most probably from freehanding.

In another thread I was recommended the Belomo 10x Triplet Loupe so that's what I picked up. Whether or not that is sufficient magnification, I do not know.

Your photos make sense. I'll have to look at the edge when I get home to see if I can spot the shiny spots right at the edge, although I don't know if 10x magnification is enough.

Shouldn't I have a double bevel?

I don’t know why some folks insist on recommending new honers use a 10x loupe.

Use as much magnification as it takes for you to see what you need to, so you understand what is happening at the edge and where you need to go to get the bevels to meet.

I know “they” say it works for them, but “they” already know what to look for.

Where there may be an issue with magnification is if you become obsessed with removing every flaw seen at 200x, in order to perfect an edge, to the point where you are chasing your tail.

But then a lot of folks say we are all chasing our tails… It’s your time and your tail, where is the harm.

Years ago, I went down that rabbit hole, where I was producing edges that were stria free at 400X, with laser straight edges, and they shaved well, very well. The problem is, few razors can support that kind of edge.

And really, you don’t need that level of bevel polish and edge straightness to get a great shave.

“What on earth is a double bevel”

A second bevel on top of the original bevel at a different angle. I this case the secondary bevel is not across the whole edge or bevel. And apparently not meeting fully.
A micro bevel is a secondary bevel, but across the whole edge and is a micro, very thin bevel at a steeper angle than the main bevel.

This is the best of the Carson scopes to buy, (there are several versions of this scope using different batteries) this one uses AA batteries and most important an easy to operate on and off switch. For $10, you can’t go wrong.


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Originally Posted by Euclid440

I don’t know why some folks insist on recommending new honers use a 10x loupe.

Use as much magnification as it takes for you to see what you need to, so you understand what is happening at the edge and where you need to go to get the bevels to meet.

I know “they” say it works for them, but “they” already know what to look for.

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And that hits the nail on the head. 5x or 500x is not so much the issue. You have to know what to look for.

Here's a thread with pics that may help: https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...pics-200x.html

There are some links to others in this post also: https://sharprazorpalace.com/honing/...ml#post1644587

The Belomo is great but I just don't see what you guys are seeing in all these pictures through that lens. All the photos I've seen here seem to be at much higher magnification. I would have been happier with a cheaper alternative :gaah: I'll pick up the Carson ASAP.

Google gave me a completely different definition of a double bevel haha. Is this something I should seek to get rid of when I go back to the hone?

“Is this something I should seek to get rid of when I go back to the hone?”

In your case, yes.

It shows that the blade was not flat on the stone, so you have one bevel at one angle and another partial bevel at another angle.

Once you set the blade up in some kind of jig, so it is flat on the stone, you will have just one bevel.

Ah, I think I get what you're saying now.

So I'm going to get the Carson for better magnification. Then I'm going to go back to the 1K and use the blade with the stropping tool to make sure it's flat on the stone and proceed from there.

You know a perfectionist wouldn't have gotten wavy in the first place. Lol. But really when you say your a perfectionist the. You've already made mistakes, cause your not. All you can do is your best, no one is perfect, or we wouldn't be here learning

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

You know a perfectionist wouldn't have gotten wavy in the first place. Lol. But really when you say your a perfectionist the. You've already made mistakes, cause your not. All you can do is your best, no one is perfect, or we wouldn't be here learning

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Well that's why its bothering me so much :rant: Back to the stone until I get this down perfectly, at least to what I think is perfect haha.

So I spent more time using my loupe last night trying to spot shiny aberrations on the bevel edge and I think I finally see what you all are talking about. With respect to the blade in question, however, I could not see any shiny spots other than where the blade stops (small metal tabs on the safety razor that hold the blade in place) come in contact with the blade. This is an area of the blade that does not come in contact with the skin.

So my question is, can we have a bevel edge free of shiny aberrations, yet still not be set correctly?

So my question is, can we have a bevel edge free of shiny aberrations, yet still not be set correctly?

No, you are not looking at the edge. If the edge was meeting fully it would cut hair.

Take a picture of the edge, you should be able to see any reflection from a cell phone photo.

Hmmm, I'll take another photo of just the edge when I get home and post it here.

Attached are photos of another blade I honed with similar shaveability. All I see is a shiny bevel, which I'm assuming doesn't tell me much about the edge. Can't zoom in anymore without producing a blurry photo.

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Take you photo looking straight down on the edge, not from the side and with a strong light overhead. If the bevels are not meeting at the edge light will reflect off those spots where they are not fully meeting.

It looks like the spine is worn down on the right side, so the bevels will never be meeting unless you use some type of jig where the blade does not rest on the spine. Tape could have prevented spine wear.

The 3 photos I posted are with the edge pointed straight up and looking down on the edge.

Here is the best I can do without producing a blurry image. This one is with flash. Not sure how to get a better image with an iPhone haha.

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I always tape the spine so perhaps it was from the previous owner. I will use the stropping tool from now on when honing these wedges.