Shapton Glass 30k - Is it worth it?

I bought a Shapton Glass 7 30k on sale. It’s the smaller version of the Shapton Glass 30K. I was never going to lay out the big $$$ for the full size version and this one was on sale (about $80 CDN) for 40% off - so why not.

My normal honing progression on a razor for which the bevel is set is 1 layer of black electrical tape on a coticule (full slurry => plain water) followed by finishing strokes on a Vermio. I added 10 laps with only weight of the razor on the Shapton after the Vermio. I did not kill the edge before honing.

Honestly, I don’t know what I was expecting, but I really did not notice a difference after adding the Shapton to the progression. It was a BBS 2-pass shave with no nicks or weepers - smooth and comfy like a coticule shave is supposed to be.

It is very unlikely that the Puma I was using already had an unimprovable (new word?) edge.

I don’t regret buying the stone, I just wonder if I maxed out its potential to improve an edge or if I just discovered it won’t damage an already good edge.

Any thoughts?

The Shapton 30k works best using the full Shapton progression on only a very few types of razors

It isn't worth it



That being said

You take a NY Little Valley made Golden Age SR and go full Shapton on that edge it will flat smoke just about any edge you have ever used

Yes Really it will :p

Yea, I have the 30K and it's the only Shapton I have.

It's never done anything for me.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

That being said

You take a NY Little Valley made Golden Age SR and go full Shapton on that edge it will flat smoke just about any edge you have ever used

Yes Really it will :p

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Are you saying there are certain steels on which the Shaptons excel?

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Originally Posted by DZEC

Are you saying there are certain steels on which the Shaptons excel?

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Yes

But more like the other way around, there are few types of steel that can hold that edge

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The Shapton 30k works best using the full Shapton progression on only a very few types of razors

It isn't worth it



That being said

You take a NY Little Valley made Golden Age SR and go full Shapton on that edge it will flat smoke just about any edge you have ever used

Yes Really it will :p

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Hard, NY made steels.. "If its a pain to hone, its an edge worth the pain" :tu

Im far from some of you when it comes to honing, but wouldnt that be more the grit and not the stone? My Gok20k acts the same way. Still learning what can take it.

The best synthetic edges I've had have come from the 30k
I would recommend it if asked.

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Originally Posted by JOB15

The best synthetic edges I've had have come from the 30k
I would recommend it if asked.

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OK, now I am really confused.

Is this true only if the 30K comes at the end of a full Shapton progression?

It can get complicated. Aside from using a Shapton suite you need an edge that is already in primo condition of keaness and the right quality of steel that can benefit from it. Of course you need the right way to finesse the hone itself also.

Try a lot more laps, coticule -> slate -> 30k are big jumps. In my experience and from what I've read you can't overhone if you're using light pressure so go nuts even, just to be sure, like 50+ laps. If you do that experiment try shaving off of the slate-with-way-extra-laps first just to see how you like it. It'll probably be different than your usual which sounds like you were making a sweet hybrid of the coticule and slate edges. Then do a whole bunch on the 30k, since that's also a big jump and it's a smaller hone. You might consider using some magnification to inspect the edge, keep honing until it's a mirror as you shouldn't be able to see a 30k scratch pattern on less than a microscope and probably not even then unless it's a quite good one.

Pumas have good steel, I'd be surprised if it couldn't hold the edge. And even if it can't, wouldn't that start out sharp initially and then degrade during the shave? Seems to be the way it went when I've had retention issues.

Also, good price, I'm in Canada too, where is the 30k 7 $80?

Fendrihan had it on sale a week ago. Don’t know if that sale is still on.

It's not anymore. Was a big hit.

It's good and it works, but ymmv.

It would be interesting to compare it against 0.1u CBN and see if that gives something more evident or not.

This being said, a good coticule edge might be hard to beat.

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Originally Posted by JOB15

The best synthetic edges I've had have come from the 30k
I would recommend it if asked.

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As Glen said, the Shapton Glass series are intended to be used as a closed system. I’ve got the full set and for those razors I take all the way to 30k, they are excellent shavers. For some of my razors I finish on naturals, but usually bring them up on the Shaptons to 8k then jump to the naturals. When I got started I bought the Shapton set (1,2,4,8,16,30k)’to serve as foundational to anything else.

It gets to point on honing where the honer is chasing something that is not there, for me and this is me only my progression lately has be a slurried 4K Shapton GS then a Shapton 8k and then some passes on a Nakayama Kiita with just a hint of slurry then strop.

For lots of razors they can’t handle this high level grits like a 30k and really does your face need a 30k, for me I find those razors honed on higher progressions somewhat harsh but this is all me

I looked at it years ago. I saw they had this very expensive lapping plate. And the fact that the sg20 k was only marginally less fine (.49 micron to .44 for the shapton) and went that route. And the sg20k doesn't have a history of performance issues. Not my words though. Those are the words of many users who have the stone. I don't and never tried it so won't comment on that.

So here's a question for you guys on the idea that Shaptons are intended to be a closed system. On the other end, I was thinking about getting the Shapton Glass 1.5k to supplement my Chosera 1k (which is the most important hone in my arsenal!) as a bevel setter. Does that SG 1.5 offer anything I don't already have? Bevel refinement? For what it's worth, the backbone in the middle of my progression is the tried and true Norton 4/8k, which I have no intention of replacing. My usual jumping off point to naturals is the equally trusty Nani 12.

I generally like my natural edges at this point, and have no desire to get any super-high grit synths like this-just curious what experienced Shapton users think about my theory on the 1.5k SG's utility on the low end.

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

So here's a question for you guys on the idea that Shaptons are intended to be a closed system. On the other end, I was thinking about getting the Shapton Glass 1.5k to supplement my Chosera 1k (which is the most important hone in my arsenal!) as a bevel setter. Does that SG 1.5 offer anything I don't already have? Bevel refinement? For what it's worth, the backbone in the middle of my progression is the tried and true Norton 4/8k, which I have no intention of replacing. My usual jumping off point to naturals is the equally trusty Nani 12.

I generally like my natural edges at this point, and have no desire to get any super-high grit synths like this-just curious what experienced Shapton users think about my theory on the 1.5k SG's utility on the low end.

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If I am reading this right you are asking if a Shapton 1.5 will help after a Chosera 1k... The answer is a resounding "No" it is a waste of money

(Before anyone takes that wrong I am NOT dissing on the Shapton,, I am saying it isn't needed after the Chosera 1k)

When you are ready to change something get a Chosera/Pro 3K or 5k and drop the Norton 4k JMHO that would smooth out your "Sharpening" and lead into a nice Norton 8k pre-finisher

ie: The Norton 8k is a really strong hone the Norton 4k mmmmmmmm not so much :) since around 2009 /2010 when they moved production

I've been using the 7 series exclusively for some time now and the feeling I get is they're cutters, not so much polishers. I have shave off the 1.2 micron alot and it is only okay. From charts I've seen it should exceed the Naniwa 12k, but the polish and shave is closer to the 8k. Even then the Naniwa is a bit better. Though a bit of polish on any natural puts a laser edge on there, and is the only way I will use them.

Aaron, I second Glen's position. But I would go for the 2k/5k super/special stones, stellar performance and decent price. The amount of leg work they cover towards polishing the bevel is stellar and the water/edge response is 1000 times more reliable than shaptons.

Thanks men-I'll take your experiences and advice into consideration. Glenn, I got one of the "good" Norton 4k's before the production move. It doesn't have the rough skin that apparently some had to lap through. That said, I'm not sure it improves a Chosera 1k bevel all that much-I swear that green brick can hone like a 4 or 5k with a few sets of super-light strokes after bevel-set!

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

So here's a question for you guys on the idea that Shaptons are intended to be a closed system. On the other end, I was thinking about getting the Shapton Glass 1.5k

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Do they make the glass in a 1.5k now ? I thought it was just the Pro that came in that grit.
Anyhoo +1 on the Chocera 3 or 5k post the 1k. Brilliant stones.

I’m glad my original post generated such a useful discussion.

I have a razor on which I’m going to try a full synthetic progression from bevel set to final polish. I have a limited selection of synths, so here’s what I plan:
- bevel set on Shapton Kuromaku Professional Ceramic 1K
- edge development using Norton 4K/8K combo
- finish using the Shapton Glass 7 30K

The jump from 8K to 30K might be a bit much, but that’s what i have.

I’m curious to see how this goes.

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Originally Posted by DZEC

I’m glad my original post generated such a useful discussion.

I have a razor on which I’m going to try a full synthetic progression from bevel set to final polish. I have a limited selection of synths, so here’s what I plan:
- bevel set on Shapton Kuromaku Professional Ceramic 1K
- edge development using Norton 4K/8K combo
- finish using the Shapton Glass 7 30K

The jump from 8K to 30K might be a bit much, but that’s what i have.

I’m curious to see how this goes.

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That'll be interesting to hear your thoughts on it. I haven't always had the best of luck with big jumps, but I had different hones at the time that aren't as aggressive as the Shaptons.

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Originally Posted by DZEC

The jump from 8K to 30K might be a bit much, but that’s what i have.

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Reminds me of a saying

"Beware the man that owns only one rifle, he might just know how to use it"

Shaptons can be aggressive cutters when pressed

Hint: Don't be afraid to use a light slurry on the 30k to "Introduce" the 8k edge to the 30k hone use it more like a J-nat and see what you can make happen.

You might also watch that vid on Shaptons I did years ago, I use a 3-2-1 style finish on the 30k, that is only a suggestion, you can adjust that finish to suit maybe a 5-4-3-2-1 or even higher.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hint: Don't be afraid to use a light slurry on the 30k to "Introduce" the 8k edge to the 30k hone use it more like a J-nat and see what you can make happen.

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I reckon slurry on the 4k will be a good idea also. Those Kuromaku 1k's are more like an 800 grit in action.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Do they make the glass in a 1.5k now ? I thought it was just the Pro that came in that grit.
Anyhoo +1 on the Chocera 3 or 5k post the 1k. Brilliant stones.

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They kinda do. Looks like the Seven line is a bit different and the "1k" (in fact there isn't a 1k stone, I'm just trying to compare it) is closer to what others have as 1k. It is a bit finer compared to Shapton Pro and Glass 1k. Seven is 11.5 micron, while Glass 1k is 14.7 and 2k is 7.35 micron. Shapton Pro 1500 is 9.8 micron.

"The jump from 8K to 30K might be a bit much, but that’s what i have."


After the 8k, just add another layer of tape and put a micro bevel on it with the 30k or do a few laps and hone just the edge. Really it is all you need.

Try to perfect your 8k edge, by jointing and resetting the bevel with 10-15 lite laps on a freshly lapped stone. Or strop on Chrome Oxide prior to the 30k to refine the 8k edge, 10-15 laps will polish just the edge.

.50um stones are too aggressive for most steels and work best as only finishers, 3-4 laps only.

If you do too many, the edge will chip after 2-3 stroppings or before.

Shaved today using a Robeson Shuredge honed using the progression I outlined in my earlier post.

Killed the edge and then reset the bevel using the Shapton Kuromaku (orange) then refined the edge using the Norton 4K/8K, stropping after completing each grit and finished with 10 light laps on the Shapton Glass 7 30K. I did take Euclid’s advice about using CrOx on a balsa paddle strop before the laps on the 30K. No pyramids or anything fancy, just finish on one stone and then move to the next.

Final stropping was 10 passes on Scrupleworks linen followed by 50 on the leather.

The shave was a comfortable 2-pass leading to BBS. I normally end with Thayers, but instead used my alum block just to make sure I hadn’t irritated the skin with an overly sharp edge. No weepers or nicks or irritation.

Final conclusion based on one shave with one razor: the synthetic progression ending with the Shapton 7 30K produced as good a shave as my regular coticule progression ending with a Vermio. The razor may have felt a bit more keen than my coticule edges, but the shave was comfortable and close without causing any skin irritation.

As far as answering my original question in the OP, beats me. I got the Shapton 30k at a great price and if I didn’t already have the coticules, I would be very satisfied with the shaves I get using it along with the Norton 4K/8K. Along with a bevel setter, that seems a quite reasonably priced synthetic progression.

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Originally Posted by DZEC

Final conclusion based on one shave with one razor: the synthetic progression ending with the Shapton 7 30K produced as good a shave as my regular coticule progression ending with a Vermio. The razor may have felt a bit more keen than my coticule edges, but the shave was comfortable and close without causing any skin irritation.

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Bit of an eye opener isn't it ?
A sharp razor is a sharp razor no matter how it got there.

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Originally Posted by DZEC

Shaved today using a Robeson Shuredge honed using the progression I outlined in my earlier post.

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Good solid NY maker, that should hold a 30K edge no prob... Now I need to break mine out and use it hehehe

"The Razor that Fits your Face"

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Good solid NY maker, that should hold a 30K edge no prob... Now I need to break mine out and use it hehehe

"The Razor that Fits your Face"

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are you a 36M400 or 16F300? Nobody would consider you a 34D300 :rofl2:

(for the unknowing, the 34D300 was marketed "...for nervous man")

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Reminds me of a saying

"Beware the man that owns only one rifle, he might just know how to use it"

Shaptons can be aggressive cutters when pressed

Hint: Don't be afraid to use a light slurry on the 30k to "Introduce" the 8k edge to the 30k hone use it more like a J-nat and see what you can make happen.

You might also watch that vid on Shaptons I did years ago, I use a 3-2-1 style finish on the 30k, that is only a suggestion, you can adjust that finish to suit maybe a 5-4-3-2-1 or even higher.

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I have tried the 3-2-1 when you mentioned you & Don were talking about it some years ago & it works well. That's all it needs. Less is better. Too sharp is overkill.