Thread: Arkansas: Translucent or Surgical Black?

I’ve been waiting all day to add my two cents worth. Please consider the following two links. (BTW PETERCP4E: I think our TRUE HARDS are cut from the same block).

https://sharprazorpalace.com/hones/1...hetstones.html

https://sharprazorpalace.com/hones/1...true-hard.html

A few points in no order of priority. 1. Among the TRUE HARD category of novaculite stones, color is not a determiner of density. Others words, not a spits worth of difference between translucent, hard black, or any other color variation of TRUE HARD.

2. While individual stones may slightly vary in density or individual persons may test their stone’s density, the best that can be said generally is the TRUE HARD category is 2.5+ on the GS scale. (See Dan’s Whetstone chart).

3. I know some go to extraordinary lengths to burnish and polish their stones. It’s a lot of work and IMHO unnecessary. Moderate to light burnishing will achieve excellent results. See attached related thread.

Please review my previous threads. Hope they’re helpful. I’ve got all three: translucent, hard black, and true hard. They perform exactly the same, which is to say magnificently.

Originally Posted by petercp4e

I went in the middle with a True Hard from Dan's.
I can't say enough good things about this stone.
I use it with water and a drop of liquid soap.
Every one of my razors, around 125 of them, is finished with this stone after Shapton Glass 16k.
For me, it takes the bite out of the keenness and produces a buttery smooth, comfortable shave.

Attachment 315296

Good luck with your choice.

Pete <:-}

I’m going to try your Shapton 16k to True Hard finish. Thanks.

I wanted to see the difference between the True hard categories of Arkansas stones. I bought four Gold Dollar #66. I chose them so I could practice buffing the razor and modifying the stabilizer. I also wanted blades that had consistent steel and I am cheap.

The stones are from left to right Naniwa 12K, Hard Black, Translucent, True Hard. All of these stones came from Dan's flat. I have burnished one side the other is lapped with 320 grit Silicon carbide.

The razors were honed on synthetic stones to 12K. The #1 razor was the stropped on CrOX. The other razors were honed starting on the 320 grit side then burnished side. I used a lubricant progression; started on 320 side dry then water, burnished side with Norton honing oil then WD40. I honed on each lubricant until the blade started sticking.

The result was I could not tell any appreciable difference in the shave. They were all great shaves.

I do enjoy hand holding the Translucent and the appearance of the True hard is hard to resist.

Well that kind of muddies the waters a bit, doesn’t it. Sounds like your experience leads to the conclusion that the high end arks are all pretty much comparable.

If that’s the case, I just felt some of my HAD diminish

Just wondering how many laps you did on each as a finisher.

Originally Posted by DZEC

Well that kind of muddies the waters a bit, doesn’t it. Sounds like your experience leads to the conclusion that the high end arks are all pretty much comparable.

If that’s the case, I just felt some of my HAD diminish

Just wondering how many laps you did on each as a finisher.

I am not a hone meister and maybe down the road I may be able to get more out of the hones. If I were concerned with cost or lap count I would stay with #1 razor, honed to 12K then stropped on CrOX to mellow the edge.

The Arks got hundreds of laps.

I enjoy honning and comparing the different edges thus my HAD.

remember YMMV
Al

Just to reiterate, there are three categories of Arkansas novaculite stones: soft, hard, true hard. The last category includes the translucent, surgical black, and any other color; and measure 2.5+ on the GS scale. Your specific stone may be more but is only a marginal distinction. (Nothing especially to brag about). I emphasize this because I’ve seen too many spats where one says, mine’s better than your’s.

The True Hard 2.5+ is often a retail bargain over the equivalent translucent or surgical black.

Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

Just to reiterate, there are three categories of Arkansas novaculite stones: soft, hard, true hard. The last category includes the translucent, surgical black, and any other color; and measure 2.5+ on the GS scale. Your specific stone may be more but is only a marginal distinction. (Nothing especially to brag about). I emphasize this because I’ve seen too many spats where one says, mine’s better than your’s.

The True Hard 2.5+ is often a retail bargain over the equivalent translucent or surgical black.

To expand on this, regardless of the stone's color Novaculite - an Arkansas sharpening stone - is %99 pure silica. Which is a very hard substance, and the difference between soft, hard, true hard is specific gravity - or how dense the stone is.

The difference between the categories Surgical Black, Translucent, and True Hard is literally just color variations. Black Arkansas stones are as described - very dark blue to black. Translucent Arkansas stones are the same silica, just a different (typically uniform and solid) color of stone. True Hard stones will have all sorts of colors mixed in, but it's the same 2.5+ density, %99 silica Novaculite as any other category.

Also to chime in on what was said about a burnished surface above I agree there as well. I polished mine up to Chrome Oxide levels just to see what difference it made, and honestly you see diminishing returns around the 2K to 4K level. It's educational, but really not worth the extra effort to polish beyond 1K to 2K and burnish the stone with a kitchen knife or similar.

But since the translucent is a rare beast it is OBVIOUSLY better. When I hone on my vintage Pike translucent I can hear magical music and the edge is also magical.

Of course that is all tongue in cheek, but if you are a collector it matters. If you are just a user of these stones there is no appreciable difference in the results. I have had many of each over the years.

Originally Posted by Rugger007

I find that the Trans Arks provide a better feedback than the SB, however, you can not go wrong either way. I dress all of mine the same way, 600 Wet/Dry followed by a quick rub with a kitchen knife to knock down any "rogue" spots. I also use propylene glycol USP as my honing fluid of choice.

IMO, the best value for your dollar is to email Dan's and see what they have available for Primitive Cuts. I have a 13 1/2" x 4" ish trans Ark Primitive Cut that I got for a song. As with all Dan's stones, one side will be as close to flat as you can get.

Thank you! I ended up getting an 11 x 4 primitive cut surgical black from Dan's Whetstones for $78 + shipping.

Originally Posted by Pedigree

Thank you! I ended up getting an 11 x 4 primitive cut surgical black from Dan's Whetstones for $78 + shipping.

how do you chamfer primitive ? i am jealous!!