Pulled the trigger on a Dan's primitive

I've been thinking of getting one of these since I first saw one posted. Finally called to find out what they had available for a true hard stone around 8x2. They had an 8x4 and a 7x3.75, so I went with the 8x4. Here's what they sent

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Looks like it's mostly trans with a bit of black. It's around an inch thick and sits pretty well in the hand. I'm very pleased with it. I'll work on knocking the edges down and polishing the face up this weekend.

Congrats. I know Aaron is enjoying his.

What a rock! It is sized like folding an 8x11 sheet of abrasive paper in half -- one with perfect grit, flat, everlasting, and beautiful with the surface at just the right height. It's a serious razor hone smasher, and waterstone bout crusher. With a finger on your blade, you can apply a little moving pressure to make sure that even uneven blades are sharpened across the whole edge. Light mineral oil is a good lubricant for the cutting surface. It is odorless, has just the right viscosity to keep the swarf suspended, and makes it easy to see on this white surface. Some honing practice on this surface will give you a perfect edge, ready for polishing on a pasted strop.

If you buy another similar rock, you can rub the surfaces together, with silicon carbide grit between them, finishing two surfaces together, getting even flatter surfaces with great finish. Just sayin'.

Nice shape and size! You came up on a good one!

Nice score, JJ-So another convert to the primitive cult, eh? :tu

It should be dead flat from Dan's. I posted in my own show and tell how I refined and burnished the surface of mine-it worked like a charm and saved my shoulder joints a lot of aggravation, but of course you will want to make that surface work for you in the way you see fit. After you sand that surface evenly to whatever grit you desire, it will just keep getting better the more you use it; best to start with all your heavy kitchen knives with your oil of choice and some Japanese-style back and forths with a bit of pressure-my knives are all shaving leg hair now lol! Then the fun with razors begins. Let us know how it hones, okay?

edit: Oh, and obviously you will want to radius and smooth those edges a bit, and round over those edge chips, but you know all that.

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Originally Posted by Toroblanco

Nice shape and size! You came up on a good one!

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I was a little worried about how the 4" width would be to hold, but the shape of the bottom fits in my hand nicely. I'm really looking forward to giving it a try.


SHD: I've liked the look of the primitive cut since I first saw them, each one unique.

It's dead flat according to my straight edge. Based on the combo stone I got from them a few months ago, it's what I expected.

My plan is to start on the edges and a bit of smoothing this weekend (if I can wait that long ;))

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Oh, how I wish you had not posted this...HAD! ...:)

Some 60 grit PSA on a stick and a little 220 with a cork put a bevel around the edge. Now it's time to start polishing/burnishing.

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Looking good, JJ-I'd love to see the darkened bathroom pic of that with a headlamp on high up against it to see just how translucent it really is. I may get Steve to find me a white trans primitive cut just because I think they're cool. I had a nice trans black convex hone that I really liked-why did I sell it?

Let us know how she hones!

I'll take that pic for you when it's ready for the blades. When it first arrived I could just barely see light through it, it was also light out so...

While I was sanding on the edges I noticed my index finger kept falling into a little chipped out notch on the back (left side of the stone in the first post). I took a dremmel stone to the sharper edges in that pocket and the long edges. It's quite comfortable in the hand now.

I did a couple hundred laps last night on one of my better edges to see if there was an improvement. I loved the feel of the blade on the stone, it was super smooth and had great feed back. I started with plain water and then went to soap/water. Stropped it half to death and shaved with it today. Didn't really improve the edge much, maybe even a little step backward. Probably my skill not the stone. I'll get it figured out eventually.

SHD: You'll have to wait a bit for the flashlight pic. I seem to have misplaced my tripod and the exposure is to slow in the dark to hand hold.

Here's the pics SHD.

It's a little more translucent than I can capture in the photos. The camera I was using was having fits with exposure in full dark, so I had to leave a little room light on. The thicker part of the stone blocks most of the light. The side light image has the light at about the middle of the stone and is closer to what the light from the bottom looks like in full dark.

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This is a better idea of the little notch on the back that I love for holding the stone.
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I think I figured out what was wrong on my first try with this stone. I decided to burnish it some more with a softer carbon steel knife blade and felt some roughness at the bevels. I hadn't polished the bevels, just left them at 220 grit. I may have gotten the edge into the rough bevel when I honed it.

I polished the bevels and honed up the Mois No.5 I've been working on. The edge looks good and tests well. I'll know for sure when I shave in a couple of days. I'm going to re-hone the first bade as well to make sure.

Test shaved this morning and I was fairly successful with the Mois. Nice shave, though I'm sure I didn't get the edge a good as it could be. Two layers of tape gave me a 15.5 hone angle and the bevel looked thin and even. Some of the original bevel is still present so it looks a little wider. The razor itself was nice. It handled really well and was fairly stiff for a hollow (which I prefer).

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The first razor I tried on this stone was not as successful. I actually made it worse. Not sure where I went wrong, but it'll get there. I need more practice time. Hopefully, I'll be able to get edges that do this stone justice.

Right now though I'm getting a decent shave and really like using this stone.

Your heel corner is close to the stabilizer, and you have hone wear over the stabilizer and on the stabilizer. Honing on the stabilizer will keep the edge off the stone and you could be keeping half of the edge from making full contact.

If you go to a Ark the edge must be already refined (at least a good 8K)as they cut/polish slowly, or do a lot of laps.

Reshaping the heel will move the corner further from the stabilizer and prevent riding on to the shoulder. Don’t be afraid to use more pressure with an Ark and lighten up for finish strokes.


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I did some heel reshaping, guess not quite enough. The hone wear on the stabilizer is from the previous user. It had a pretty significant amount of hone wear before I restored it. I just didn't get all of it hidden.

Before resto, just some basic clean up
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I'll take some more off the heel when I go back to the hones.

My honing is still a little inconsistent...practice, practice, practice. Sometimes I get a little frustrated with my progress through the grits and have to put it away for a day or so.

Lots of wear over the heel on the spine, the stabilizer has been keeping the edge off the stone for some time. What does the other side look like? Is it just wear or a warp also?

You will need at least 2 layers of tape to make up for lost width of the spine.

Here is another easy test you can do, to maximize your Ark edge. Put on 2 layer of electrical tape, drop back to your 8k and do 40 X laps, 20 with a bit of pressure and 20 lite finish laps, look at the edge with magnification and make sure you are honing to the edge from heel to toe.

Run a QTip along the edge, to ensure there are no microchips, the slightest snag is a chip, or you were not honing to the edge. You should have a substantial secondary bevel.

If it snags, do 40 more, 20 with lite pressure, 20 lite.

Now rinse your razor, your stone and holder, any loose grit can ruin all your finishing efforts. Dry the razor and add a 3rd layer of tape. Now do only 6 X laps, 2 with a bit of pressure and 4 with lite pressure. This will make a fine Ark micro bevel.

Run the tip of a QTip on the edge, you should have a clean straight edge. If you do not, you have an issue with the Ark face, and it need re-lapping.

If you get a nice shaving edge, it is technique and your razor is not making full contact and honing to the edge.

If you do not get a nice shaving edge, it is your stone, it needs lapping or has some other issue.

Here's the back side before restoration
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The blade doesn't have a warp that I can detect. It think it just had a bunch of wear and uneven honing. You could see it in the original bevel.

I used two layers of tape, the calculator gave me 15.5 degree angle with two layers (14.9 with one layer). Good Idea about going three layers for a micro bevel, I will definitely give that a try. Should have plenty of room in the angle.

I kind of did this blade as a practice project, but the more I work with it the more I like it. I'm hoping to make it great again.

“The hone wear on the stabilizer is from the previous user.”

I don’t think so, the top at the spine maybe, but the wear on the stabilizer is new. Polish it out with some 600 and 1k wet and dry or just mark it with some sharpie ink and hone.

It can easily keep half of the razor off the stone, at the edge.

The wear on the back side is the opposite of the front side, indicating a warp. The grinding may have flattened it out and the spine and edge are in alignment now and will sit flat on a stone.

The stabilizer is still keeping the heel half of the front side off the stone.

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Wear from the previous user... I did mean the wear at the spine. I know I got into the stabilizer at the edge a couple of times while honing. I'll get the heel rounded more before I give this another go.

Thanks for the advice. I'll work this over some more. Lots of small details I'm still learning.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Your heel corner is close to the stabilizer, and you have hone wear over the stabilizer and on the stabilizer. Honing on the stabilizer will keep the edge off the stone and you could be keeping half of the edge from making full contact.

If you go to a Ark the edge must be already refined (at least a good 8K)as they cut/polish slowly, or do a lot of laps.

Reshaping the heel will move the corner further from the stabilizer and prevent riding on to the shoulder. Don’t be afraid to use more pressure with an Ark and lighten up for finish strokes.


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Is it razor geometry or technique? Wouldn't a slight heel leading stroke correct for this without needing reshaping?

When I look at the NOS World Master Special current on the FS page, to my eyes that heel geometry looks very similar to this razor with respect the corner and stabilizer.

It is a razor repair not regular honing. The Correction should be made first then honed regularly.

The previous owner clearly had an issue with honing the razor and particularly the heel, so he applied more pressure on the heel not realizing he was on the stabilizer. It is not hard to do and is a common issue with a lot of razors, probably at least 50% of the razors I see, even new razors.

The hone wear on the spine indicates a warp, wear on the heel on one side and on the toe, the other,

On that razor you could hone the heel with the edge forward stroke, or a straight stroke with the heel jammed into the corner of the stone, but you would have to be careful keep the heel on the edge of the stone or it will ride up. The corner of the edge should be about a ¼ inch from the stabilizer for easy honing, and aesthetics.

Once you create that issue, (heavily grind the spine over the heel) you create another at the edge for the life of the razor. It can be mitigated with tape and careful honing, but could easily be avoided when honing, with a few strokes in less than a minute with a diamond plate or low grit hone.

It is not just a heel problem, (getting the heel honed) when you hone on the stabilizer, half of the edge at the heel is off the stone, or at least not making full contact, and more pressure and contact is on the toe half of the edge, compounding the problem at the edge. It may account for a lot of the wonky razors we see where the width and edge bevels are not uniform.

So, even if you are not riding the stabilizer each stroke, you can be creating other issues each time you do.

Yes, that razor in the BST has the same issue, probably because of the buffing, (lost some width) note the toe. It is not uncommon. It was the first thing I thought, when I first saw that posting. Personally, I think rounding that heel would improve the look of that razor, a beautiful razor.

I see the same issue on new Dovos and TI’s, as said it is an easy fix that literally just takes a minute. I include it as part of a regular honing and routinely move the edge corners away from the stabilizers even if a whole correction is not needed, just part of maintenance.

I looked at the first dozen razors on the BST and everyone of the razors that had stabilizers could use heel correction, some badly. All had edges on them and had been honed that way for years.

As the razor wears in width the corner naturally moves towards the stabilizer. On some razors the stabilizers are not that tall and grind down easily and the heel get honed, though probably not as keen as It could.

I shave with the heel a lot, so a keen heel and toe are important to me and may be something I look at more than most folks. But as I said it is something that can easily be corrected and should.