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:D Since I didn't manage to increase the number of razors available, my three started to feel the difficulty of shaving my very hard beard. So I thought I'd start sharpening them with a coticule. On the Belgian site I saw that the price varies greatly depending on the size so, I would have oriented myself on a selected 175x50 mm. What do you think, will it be of adequate size for a beginner?
Cheers!
Bigger size does make it easier and quicker but 175×50 is still relative luxury. Arkies and Coti's were sold in 100×50 size so that is more than capable.
50mm x 175mm is plenty of real estate. Also depends on whether you hone in the hand or the bench. I hone in the hand and anything longer than 175mm tends to be overkill. On a coticule, I can get by pretty easily with 40mm x 125mm.
I'm by no means an expert, I consider myself to be an intermediate honer at best (I can get edges that I'm happy to shave with, but I'm nowhere near confident enough in my skills to hone for others), so maybe take my opinion with a grain of salt.
My first coti (bought from Ardennes) was 150mm x 40mm. It's definitely large enough to hone on! I find it's actually quite a nice size for holding in my hand while working, although I sometimes wish it was a touch longer - so I think the size you're looking at would be a good choice.
I have smaller stones and bigger stones, ranging anywhere from 125mm x 25mm (5" x 1") to 200mm x 75mm (8" x 3"), and I have to say that even though it's great to have all the real estate of the 8x3 stones, I rarely use the entire width. Sometimes with a warped blade like an old Sheffield, the wide stone is actually a hindrance. 5x1 stones are a little small for my liking, the lap count will go quite high. So I guess what I'm driving at is that a 7"x2" stone (175mm x 50mm) could be considered to be the happy medium.
I say take the dive and find out if you like it or not. If you don't like it, I'm sure there will be someone willing to take it off your hands.
But just out of curiosity: what makes you want to begin with a natural stone, and a Belgian coticule in particular? Many people, including me, would recommend starting with a synthetic stone since they are much more consistent (although admittedly much less sexy). With naturals, no two stones are alike so you never know what you're going to get, and each individual stone will require time and effort to figure out.
What Joel said. Synthetics are quite a bit easier to learn.
As for size, myself I do prefer lots of real estate when honing. I mostly hone on lapping film, using 1/3 of a sheet cut lengthways stuck to a 12" x 3", 3/4" thick acrylic plate. Long strokes make quick work of it. However, for peak sharpness, shorter strokes can bump up the game a bit, at the finish. And so while sometimes great length is very useful, there are times when it is not really needed. I would say that a 6" long stone is adequate. Really, even shorter will work. As for width, I do prefer a stone (or piece of film) wide enough to get the entire edge crossways on it. This is not essential but it does make honing a bit easier. So 2-3/4" or so, up to about 3" wide, is a good width. With careful x stroking, narrower hones will get the job done, though. To save money, with coticules, get a "bout", pronounced "boo", which is an irregularly shaped stone rather than a perfect rectangle. A large bout costs about the same as a somewhat smaller perfect rectangle. Most serious synthetic razor hones will be around 2-3/4" x 8-1/4". Not talking about "Sharp Pebble" or "Bear Moo" or similar stones that in spite of the low price you might want to avoid. The standard size synthetic razor hones are quite comfortable and easy to work with.
Thank you very much Gentlemen.Quote:
Originally Posted by joelkerr
Joelkerr you're right, but I'm fascinated by the natural ones and I appreciate not having to use many stones but only one getting a different grit by measuring the slurry. I know it will be difficult but I have a tendency to get into trouble ...:D
Also I believe that my razors are not in a bad way from having to redo the bevel so I think I will start working under water and I will see what happens.
6×2 is a fine size. Not excessive and not too small. A little less in width helps with wonky razors as said above. Now translate that to those wierd numbers from the other side of the pond and there you go.
:D:D Thanks as usual!:D:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Gasman
I admire your dedication Dobel. Coticules are great hones and fun to use.
Yup, the size will work, but larger is better to learn on. The Coticule is probably the most difficult stone to learn. They can vary in performance and larger stones are pricy.
Read the Coticule threads, there are many, (I wonder why?). You will see that most folks have issues with these stones, these are people that already know how to hone razors. Many/most folks give up on Coticules, after buying more than one, in an attempt to find a “good one”. Reading coticule threads, one thing becomes apparent, no-one owns just one and very few folks use them to finish razors on.
If you have a difficult, hard beard, a Coticule is not the best choice. They are known for their smoothness, not keenness. But first you need to learn to hone. Knowing how to hone knives can get in the way of learning to hone razors.
You are making learning to hone a razor, as difficult as possible.
Welcome to the forum, hope you succeed, most “Knife” guys don’t listen and give up.
If you have to set a bevel on a blade, I think you should work with a 1k synthetic. Once the bevel is set, I find a coticule works fine for me and the size you mentioned is the size I prefer.
Once you are happy with the edge you have from the coticule, you can take it to the next level with chromium oxide pasted on a strop. I use a balsa wood paddle strop and it works great for not that much of an investment.
THere are a lot of very good videos out there demonstrating a variety of techniques for honing with a coticule. I found the information on the coticule.be website the most useful. gssixgun, one of the honemeisters on this forum, has many videos on the web you can learn form. Ardennes coticules also has a tutorial page with pretty simple instructions for honing a variety of edges at https://www.ardennes-coticule.be/en/tutorials.
Take your time. Get yourself a decent magnifier loupe so you can check the progress of your edge as you hone. Go slow and enjoy the zen of the honing experience. It can be very relaxing.
Dear Badgister, I have already had the opportunity to know your correctness and competence in PM so this time I publicly thank you for your comment that fills me with pride! :beer1:Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgister
...and thank you all for the advice I will try to do my best! :tu
Honing on coticules is not rocket surgery, but it does take time and dedicated practice. Enjoy Dobel, they are both demanding and giving hones, both in experience as well as shaving comfort.
It's how I started and if I were to start honing again I'd choose the same coticule paved path in a heartbeat. Follow the yellow brick road, my friend, follow the yellow brick road.
Regards,
Pierer
Thank you Pierer, I made my order yesterday, I hope the stone is here in a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pithor
Friends I will keep you informed with my impressions, sure of your indispensable support, greetings!
Good luck. I never did get along with a Coti.