Jnat hardness questions

Questions for the Jnat guys out there:

It seems that the generally accepted wisdom for someone starting on Jnats is to avoid the super hard stones and get something in the 4 or 4.5 hardness level. From what I understand, this is because a slightly softer stone will cut faster and provide more feedback, making it easier to hone on. Are there any other reasons?

Would this lower level of hardness allow me to achieve the laser-sharp edges I've experienced from other Jnat honers?

I've been honing a lot on a Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas stone lately. What's the difference in feedback and hardness between these and a level 5 or 5+ Jnat?

Thanks for your input!

Hardness and fineness usually (but not always) go together, harder stones usually are, or act finer than softer ones. It’s possible to find softer jnats that are good razor hones, but the softer you go the more difficult it is to find stones that make that super smooth edge. As Alex Gilmore told me, ‘Fineness is inherited, hardness is not.’ Many times, but not all, adding some clear water strokes (10-20) after honing on slurry will ‘keen up’ an edge from a softer stone - but it depends in the individual stone..

I consider a ‘5’ to be normal razor hone hardness from most vendors. I have no problems with a 5+ or even 5++ stone. Hard stones take longer to raise a slurry, and I keep a piece of King 1000 or a very mellow 600 Atoma to deglaze them if they get too shiny. And you can also use a diamond plate to raise slurry on a hard stone, if you use a diamond plate the hardness doesn’t really matter that much.

Feedback depends on the individual stone, some are glassy smooth, others are not, and this difference doesn’t have any relation to the quality of the edges that they make.

I am having a conversation in email right now with Alex about cutting speed, and we were discussing that its not so much the hardness of the stone, but the type/quality of the nagura and the honer him/herself that does the job.

From what I know, and talking to Alex (not to mention the starter sets that Keith Johnson sells are usually described as hard Shobu), I wouild say stick with the hard stones if you want a keen edge, and learn to work your nagura!

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Originally Posted by joelkerr

Questions for the Jnat guys out there:

It seems that the generally accepted wisdom for someone starting on Jnats is to avoid the super hard stones and get something in the 4 or 4.5 hardness level. From what I understand, this is because a slightly softer stone will cut faster and provide more feedback, making it easier to hone on.
Nope , that's not entirely correct. It's because newbs have heavy hands & some hard stones may have an inherent "scratchiness". Mostly a quality finisher is reflected in its cost relative to its size.

Are there any other reasons?
None that I can think of that make sense. A hard stone may be either a slow or very fast cutter but it's more about how you use it.

Would this lower level of hardness allow me to achieve the laser-sharp edges I've experienced from other Jnat honers?
If it's a fine stone, maybe but can you reproduce their edges with their gear is a better question.

I've been honing a lot on a Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas stone lately. What's the difference in feedback and hardness between these and a level 5 or 5+ Jnat?
Sorry to say, it can vary. I bought a supposed 5+ stone that was not as hard as my favourite Nakayama Asagi & would not be as hard as a glassy surgical black ark. I didn't like it & sold it. I've also used a $1000 finisher that wasn't all that hard that made perfect edges. You really will be dependent on the seller to match you to a stone. To hedge your bets I would say buy a razor sized stone i.e. approx 5" x 3" & ask that it be a "finisher". Don't be overly concerned re hardness just that it is pure , finisher fine & just hard enough. Of course there will be stones of a different size that will work also so be flexible but the razor size is usually cut from appropriate razor quality rock & you won't be paying for a 2lb stone. You should buy from someone with a return policy so that if you can't get what you want out of it you won't be out of pocket.

Thanks for your input!

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I remember my first purchase very fondly. I blew a good wad of cash learnt a ton & made a friend. Good luck with your buy :)