You mean that it isn’t Shapton wanting stone prices for plate glass? Lol.
Shapton Glass stones are a good system, just pricey.
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Boy am I late to this party. Lot of interesting stuff, good advice and varying opinions but all worthy. I don't have a 12K naniwa so I have no knowledge of comparison for it. My 12K Sharpton is a pretty smooth stone but you have to be careful about soaking that very much or it will craze (also it is helpful to learn to speak Japanese). Mine started to craze a little but fortunately the fissures don't really affect it. I found that a good hard ark takes the bite out of the 12k pretty well but then I don't really use it much these days. I haven't used it much since I ventured into arks. In fact I haven't used much of anything since I've ventured into arks. My water stones always dried on the edge and spent most of their time on the edge of the tub drying out thoroughly so they never went back in their boxes until I got the ark jones. I have just recuperated enough from my hand injury to start honing again so I pulled them back out just because I don't quite have enough dexterity to stay with the amount of laps needed for arks. I haven't ventured into jnats yet. My venture into arks cost me enough so far and quite frankly I got a little scared of poverty looking at jnats knowing the kind of bottomless pit you can fall into with any kind of natural stones.
I would really encourage you to learn to palm your stones, regardless of what they are. It makes you learn how to keep the stone steady and avoids putting too much pressure on the toe. Even though you think you're not leaning on the toe with your finger you still are. I look back now at razors from my collection that I haven't used for a long time and I can see them starting a frown from leaning my fingers on top of the bevel. It makes me sad to think about it. Looking back is quite a lesson though. Someone mentioned narrow stones which I have found I really like, especially if you have an uneven bevel or a warp. I have a Pike translucent slip stone which is wedge-shaped and both the fat and the narrow end are rounded. I use the wider heel of the stone to finish with sometimes because it hones such a narrow swath of the edge.It's a way to avoid all of the rocking or corner honing or stacking tape yada yada yada.
Yall crack me up. First ten all day narwina. So I pulled the trigger on that. Suddenly Shapton comes up. Like all the shapton people work days and narwina people work nights. I see how all the collection disorders start :).
Aloha!
Op, no worries. If you bought a Naniwa, then good on you, sir. That's an amazing stone and you'll enjoy it (probably) for the rest of your life. I have one. I can't say enough good about it.
I also have a Jnat 12k (full size) and two 12k Jnat small barber hone sizes that I keep in a drawer in my shaving den and in my luggage for traveling so I can touch-up on the fly. These work just dandy as well, but if I had to go with one stone, I'd probably go with the Naniwa.
Like all things where you ask an "Opinion", you are going to get different suggestions from the members on what each member thins is a "better" stone. You have to choose one, and I think you have chosen wisely. So don't worry about it. Just enjoy putting that finishing egde on your razors with what you got, because you got a great stone.
Or buy both...or all.... :shrug:...I sense a case of HAD setting in. See? This is how it starts then down the rabbit hole ya go.
Aloha,
That comment was good natured fun. It was just the timing of everything that was funny to me. I'm sure it is a great stone if half of yall love it and the other half think it's fine. And, if I don't like it, there's the Movember auction next year and other recommendations here. I have no regrets.
On another note, I frequently look in the mirror and say "look at the. Teeny tiny hairs growing out my face.". One of my favorite Bill Cosby bits in your signature there.
You want to be careful about using the screw style hone holders on the Naniwa SS even slight overtightening can exacerbate the warping issues especially if you let the hone dry in the holder..
I just make my own out of Cedar now, works great for both the Pro/Chosera and the 20mm SS hones, same type of little wooden bridge style holder (Dai) you see for J-Nats
What Glen mensioned I had noticed a couple years ago. Last year i fixed it by buying the Shapton stone holder. I found it on sale and i had a discount to add so it didnt hurt as bad. Now im not buying the bath it sits in but its a great holder.
I use a steelex rubber holder, but never tighten it on a stone. I use the holder for extra height, I often lay smaller or thin stones, (naturals) on another stone in the holder with a piece of rubber drawer liner between them, with no issues.
For years I honed on a 1X4 pine board cut to fit our laundry sink, and piece of drawer liner.
Some good thought of the pros & cons of a stone holder.
I would have to be very careful about overtightening and not letting my stone dry in it.
My Nortons are fine on the blue container/stand but my 20mm Naniwa SS sits on a towel because it is just a bit big to fit on the Nortons box and when it's on the towel it's just a bit too low and is awkward because my hand and the scales touch the towel often.
My lapping plate sits on a piece of wood, now I think of it I could put my old towel on that and use it to raise my Naniwa instead of getting a stone holder.
Talking of honing in hand etc. How many laps on an Ark Translucent do you guys find you need to finish after 12k synth? I use a lot but probably too many, I just hone until I am bored which takes a long time.
What ever it takes to produce the desired edge.
Kinda like asking how many licks, to the center of a tootsie roll lollly pop.
This is what I’ve found over a lot of years, the Nani 12 is one of the most versatile stones for razors out there. I have bought and sold a lot of stones given most away, I still have my Nani, it was when they had a plastic base. If you take the time to learn it, well let’s just say I’ve tryed to get someone to show me a better edge. From some very good hone guys with very good stones. To this day I have that stone and shave with it. Had a GOK20 and it was great, but I sold it.
Just get a stone and stick with it, then LEARN TO STROP!
‘You’re holding it wrong.’ Apologies to Steve Jobs, lol.
If you have a stone that won’t fit in a stone holder, or you don’t want to fool with those fiddly screws, just flip the holder over and use the bottom as a rubber block.
Funny how the answer seems to always be staring you square in the face. :gaah:
I’ve never tried this, though I do have the glass cut for it. I mentioned gluing glass to a Kuromaku, and my friend Mike did it - he posts as Southbound here I believe but only comes by once in a while. Maybe this could cure the N12k warping? Turn it into a Glass Stone. The glass is cheap. I offered him one of mine, but the postage was a deal killer.
Wow, that looks really nice. Far and away above my skill level, though. But, if anyone stumbles along this thread there are plenty of options for all sorts of materials people may be able to work with. You guys are awesome, as always.
Santa brought the stone yesterday and miraculously have not played with it yet with any of the seven razors I need to hone.
Lowes and Home Depot have 3x12 x 3/8 in glass tiles that could be used to bond to a stone for about $4.
I use them for honing with lapping film. I flatten them with some 220 for a super flat face and a satin finish that makes wet lapping film stick to them like glue.
I just lay them on a Steelex Rubber holder for honing.
So, Santa brought me the stone and I finally got around to flattening and finished off three razors. So, I want to thank yall again for all the suggestions and tips.
I still have a lot to figure out about the feeling of the stone and learn the metric of when they are done (1K shave, 4K start topping, 8K really topping, 12K really really topping?). Also played around with the thurningian on one of them. Talk about a learning curve, though. Anyway, both shaves seemed better than my old edges, which is a win for a first time, I'd say.
I'm sure others have already said this, or else you have found some of the old threads on edge tests at the various stages etc. With the edge tests you need to work on calibration - that is usually an iterative process developed over either many years or many razors, or both.
Yes, there are general guidelines and possibly even standard "minimums" below which you can be assured your edge is not there, but the finer points of edge assessment have an element of subjectivity to them that you can only learn through consistency, detailed investigation and, perhaps most importantly, experience and time.
Keeping a honing and shaving diary could help. I used to take notes when I honed (like a workout), not only recording hones used and strokes on each etc, but also the results of the edge tests (thumbnail off the 1 and 4K, arm hair wafting tests off the rest, sometimes the thumbpad test too) - noting the feeling, speed, sound etc. Then I would compare that to the test shave. Rinse and repeat.
Hard to say whether it sped up my learning process or not. But it definitely helped me develop consistency and structure.
James.
Yeah, I'm working on it. The diary is a good idea. I have a similar metric full of feelings and sounds that I go through. But, it's going to take me a minute to figure out the feeling and sound from my old 8k edge to a 12k edge. How much faster will it be? How much quieter? And yeah, that is just repatition and practice.
Problem is, I'm changing too many variables now. I went from one round nose 5/8" hollow ground. Then added a couple of square point 5/8" hollow ground. Sounds and feeling seemed the same there. But when I have moved to 6/8 half hollow I convinced myself that the sounds and feelings will probably be different and "it's surely good enough, now" and it isn't :). Not even close.
If I were smart, I'd just spend a few weeks with the first razor that I know so well to learn the 12k stone. Then spend a few weeks with one of the different grinds and learn those. But I'm not that smart. I have all these razors to play with and I'm supposed to just leave them there while I wait for my whiskers grow for shave test. Sure thing.
But, I'll get there. It's just a matter of doing the work and not letting myself get frustrated.
Oh, and it doesn't help that I think I messed up my 8k stone, but that's a whole nother thing. I've got a few more things to try before I get into that one. But it does sort of put a hindrance on everything else (like stopping it in its tracks).
In my humble opinion nothing you do is wasted effort as long as there's a purpose and goal to it. Doing things efficiently is another story but let's face it - this is possibly one of the most involved, convoluted, and time-consuming ways to remove hair from your general face area. And let's not forget fun and rewarding. Take your time and enjoy the ride. Sometimes I forget how much fun I had learning stuff - you do your thing planeden - I think you'll do fine. Definitely got the right attitude.
James.
Thanks Jimbo.
As far as the efficiency, if you consider the amount of time spent maintaining and compare to the amount of time spent working to afford all those cartridges :). Way more fun, too.
Aha! So, my 4k/8k stone took weeks to dry out so I just started keeping it in water. The 8k side never really felt quite right, though. It stopped working well, as in it would get duller on the 8k side. So, I flattened it. Still no good. I pulled it out of the water a couple of days ago and it is so bad it rocks on the counter. I'm not sure if it was too soft or I just did that bad of a job.
Either way, I figure I'll let it dry out a few more days then flatten it again and see if it works. Then I'll make sure not to leave it soaking. Soaking may not have caused it, but why risk it?
And, just for another datapoint, my Norton 4/8K combo stone has been sitting in water continuously since 2009. I use it on every honing job I do.
I guess, as they say, YMMV.
James.
I've heard those were good stones. This one cost me $20. Before I soaked it for months it had a very nice feel to it and did a very good job. But it just didn't feel quite the same after soaking for months.
But, regardless, my version of science thinks going back to the original successful versions is the first test. Then some day may try leaving it in the bath for longer and see.