Swaty hones... again

Have a Swaty...

FRANZ SWATY
WAHRING BEI WIEN
(AUSTRIA)

that measures 7 7/8 x 2 inches.

Had some metal coating on one side (cleaned off with cleanser). In very nice condition. May have been used for wood chisels. Anyone know anything about a larger Swaty? This would not fit in the barber's pocket. Did Swaty make hones for other tools as well as razors?

I did a few laps with a dull straight and with stropping, it seemed to help. I would send a picture but my photography skills are deficient.

Any info welcome

I have the longer 3 lined swatty. Dont know if it was made for anything special. Just longer. I made a nice wood box for mine.

They are not as common as the shorter hone but I have seen a few around. As far as I have heard they are the same as the shorter ones.

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Originally Posted by Gasman

I have the longer 3 lined swatty. Dont know if it was made for anything special. Just longer. I made a nice wood box for mine.

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Mine is in a carefully made, but slightly short box. It is made with thin, 2 layer plywood and very fine nails. Perhaps making boxes for the stones was a popular project.

The stone is in excellent shape and I was pleased to get it. I do a few laps with lather once in a while. Seems to help.

Now that I'm at home, Here is mine...
Attachment 335569 Attachment 335570
A standard size and a long one. Boxes made from the same wood. Too bad my memory sucks or I'd remember what wood I used (Popler, maybe)? :shrug:

As Outback taught me, You can finish on these hones. It takes a lot of light-handed laps, but you can get an edge that will give a lot of comfort. So don't think it's just for a touch-ups/few laps when the edge starts to pull.

Thanks, Mike!

And like Shaun said, Its the same material used to make the longer one. Just a bit more acreage.

I have a plain Dovo from 1968 or 69 that has never seen anything but the standard 3 line Swaty and it shaves like a dream. I reckon there's a reason barbers used them. Other than that my razors are gently stropped. The old ways worked well.

Here's a question that has stumped the entire internet, at least when I search it. Since the Swaty is known as a synthetic hone,it seems that the recipe for what it actually is has been lost. At least I can't find a single simple answer. What the hell are these things made of? You would think that's a simple question but it's not. Mine has a really small ding on the side, which doesn't affect the performance but drives me nuts, and if I knew what it's made of I could whip up a batch and fix it, but no such luck. Does anyone know what these things are made of? And as an aside, all of you that have one or more, try using the circle motion, it seems to give me the best results, I give it a few regular strokes, then ten circles and my edge is back. This works the best for me, give it a try, I'd like to hear the results.

Yes, small barber's hones are made for circles, I feel. Lots of things have been lost, sadly.
IIRC, Randydance has some recipes from American Hone Co who made many brands of them.
Might be some clues there?

If it's just a cosmetic patch then you might be able to use a piece of a different barber hone, a broken one found cheap on eBay maybe. Grind it up and mix with a binder, epoxy I would guess...:shrug:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Yes, small barber's hones are made for circles, I feel. Lots of things have been lost, sadly.
IIRC, Randydance has some recipes from American Hone Co who made many brands of them.
Might be some clues there?

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Yes, the American Hone Company did make hone labeled "Three Line Swaty" but it was far from the Swaty's made in eastern Europe. The abrasives used by the AHC were the normal aluminum oxide and silicon carbide.

I suspect that the abrasives used by the original Swaty were quite different. They may have used a natural abrasive formed in the same manner as Frictionite ( of Frictionite hone fame). There are only 3 deposits known. One in Zimbabwe, one in Peru, and one in Eastern Europe. These deposits are made when one large land mass slides over another and the friction generates so much heat that it fuses the different minerals together. The Frictionite from Zimbabwe was quartz plus other minerals. What the composition of the other two deposits is I do not know.
There was an artificial Coticule made ( I have one) that used fine sandstone and cement. When you pour vinegar on a small spot it will generate small bubbles ( fizz). Sham demonstrated that to me and later I found a text in German, which I translated, and it was 10 % sandstone and 90% cement. I do not remember if by weight or volume.

To the question of repairing a hone. Most were made, basically, from shellac and abrasives plus a couple of other small ingredients.

Food for thought. :)

Interesting. I have a Swaty I think I have rarely used. I never even thought about it until you mentioned the difference Randy so I went and checked and it is a "Pike Swaty." I never even knew there were different ones or really anything about them until now.

I really don't know good, bad or indifferent about it.

Lots of threads here. Check them out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Yes, small barber's hones are made for circles, I feel. Lots of things have been lost, sadly.
IIRC, Randydance has some recipes from American Hone Co who made many brands of them.
Might be some clues there?

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Mines about six inches, and I'm not that concerned about the chip,as it's only one side, what's driving me nuts is that it works at all. It's smoother than some kitchen countertops Ive seen and felt. The reason I'd like to know what it's made of is that if it was done once, then I should be able to make my own. I figured that it's some type of clay with some kind of binder. If we knew the recipe we all could make some.... .Just a thought. Where can I find these recipes you speak of??.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Interesting. I have a Swaty I think I have rarely used. I never even thought about it until you mentioned the difference Randy so I went and checked and it is a "Pike Swaty." I never even knew there were different ones or really anything about them until now.

I really don't know good, bad or indifferent about it.

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The Pike Swaty is not from Austria or Jugoslavia ( spelling is correct). It and the hone from the American hone company are knockoffs made from an inferior abrasive.
IMHO, the Apart hone is finer than the original Swaty.

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

....... I figured that it's some type of clay with some kind of binder. If we knew the recipe we all could make some... Just a thought. Where can I find these recipes you speak of??.

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Most of the hones made by the American Hone Company are basically shellac and some abrasive.
I bought the recipes from Charles Johnson, the owner of the American Hone company, a number of years ago.
When I priced out the cost of the replacement ingredients plus labor, etc., well..... it just was not commercially viable.

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Originally Posted by Davidcordes

Have a Swaty...

FRANZ SWATY
WAHRING BEI WIEN
(AUSTRIA)

that measures 7 7/8 x 2 inches.

Had some metal coating on one side (cleaned off with cleanser). In very nice condition. May have been used for wood chisels. Anyone know anything about a larger Swaty? This would not fit in the barber's pocket. Did Swaty make hones for other tools as well as razors?

I did a few laps with a dull straight and with stropping, it seemed to help. I would send a picture but my photography skills are deficient.

Any info welcome

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You have an authentic Swaty. There are 3 lines of text and the last line includes the country of manufacture.
Austria or Jugoslavia ( spelling is correct.).

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Most of the hones made by the American Hone Company are basically shellac and some abrasive.
I bought the recipes from Charles Johnson, the owner of the American Hone company, a number of years ago.
When I priced out the cost of the replacement ingredients plus labor, etc., well..... it just was not commercially viable.

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Really? About how much was it going to cost to make them? Turns out mine is a three line from Austria, and it works better than I would think after feeling how smooth it is. How much did those recipes cost you, if you don't mind, and it's ok if you do.?

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

Really? About how much was it going to cost to make them? Turns out mine is a three line from Austria, and it works better than I would think after feeling how smooth it is. How much did those recipes cost you, if you don't mind, and it's ok if you do.?

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How much? I used to be a cost accountant so.....it would cost a consumer less to purchase a modern manmade hone. The materials costs are much higher now than they were in the 1970's. I paid approx 1970's prices for the materials I purchased from them. But the real expense comes from the labor and equipment and overhead. It simply is not a commercially viable activity.
Here is a link to some suitable Aluminum oxide. Grit rating 1200F (mesh), approx 1 micron average size. This is finally available in packages less that 1 ton.
https://rockridgegrit.com/product/ex...m-oxide-1200f/

...and this is the shellac you want
https://www.shellac.net/mm_lemon_shellac.html

and the ratio is 75% abrasive, 25% shellac, based on weight.

If I recall correctly i posted a method to create your own chrome oxide hone a number of years ago.

Grizzley, we are all enamoured with certain old razor hones.
Indeed the good Swaty hones have held up nice in good environments and are quite effective.

It seems to me that most everyone who has one has a few. It's easy to upgrade to a nicer example.
If this one was on an aution site for starting bid of 9 bucks and had only a few days to go, it would speak volumes on the point.
Little chamfering around and good as gold. No bids.....

Attachment 350043


I think about 34 examples on one site alone and half seem nice.
It may be wiser to hoard nice examoles of vintage ones than making new ones with all that would be involved.
JMHO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

Grizzley, we are all enamoured with certain old razor hones.
Indeed the good Swaty hones have held up nice in good environments and are quite effective.

It seems to me that most everyone who has one has a few. It's easy to upgrade to a nicer example.
If this one was on an aution site for starting bid of 9 bucks and had only a few days to go, it would speak volumes on the point.
Little chamfering around and good as gold. No bids.....

Attachment 350043


I think about 34 examples on one site alone and half seem nice.
It may be wiser to hoard nice examoles of vintage ones than making new ones with all that would be involved.
JMHO

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Thanks for the info, but the one I already have is like new, except for the small (and I mean small) and that's on the side with the writing, so most of you would give me a smack on the head and say what's wrong with you. I know this but I get a little obsessive about this kind of stuff. The only way I could improve on the one I have is by finding one that's NOS with the original box, but that's my own issue...maybe a shrink would help......

Oh just keep looking. It will come up!

Thanks I will, because I can't help myself.....

Can you use them dry? I've had no luck with mine (using lather). This thread got me interested again so I tried it dry. Very hopeful. Edge seemed very smooth but maybe not as keen as I'm used to. Any tips?

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

Thanks I will, because I can't help myself.....

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I can relate! :)
A bunch of us are a bit obsessive. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tintin

Can you use them dry? I've had no luck with mine (using lather). This thread got me interested again so I tried it dry. Very hopeful. Edge seemed very smooth but maybe not as keen as I'm used to. Any tips?

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I've had the best luck with just a dab the dollar shave clubs shaving milk,I believe that's what they call it, just a dab, and that's given me the best results. And just as an aside, that shaving milk is like teflon for your face, it's the best stuff I've used and it's somewhat clear so if you have a beard, you can see through it for nice straight lines. It's not expensive and I liked it so much I bought six tubes. I was using mama bears soap and like this better. JMHO