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In a video Lynn Abrams mention that new Norton (220/1000 or 4000/8000) need to be prepped
with a flattening stone before first because the surface is coarser than expected. Can anyone confirm.
I bought a 4000/8000 several years ago for my razor and added a 220/1000 for Japanese knives.
One ne razor (maintained with strop and paste for years) need honing now. How long should I use
the flattening stone.
Sylvain
Search for lapping a stone. Use a dmt or diamond plate of some kind as i hear the flattening stones are not that flat to start with.
If you need to remove a lot of the surface, float glass & loose Silicon Carbide powder is the fastest way.
You can use wet n dri paper to replace the SiC but it never returns quite the same flatness as the paper introduces a bit of play.
A diamond plate is perfect afterwards especially to remove any embedded particles from the Norton. They are a soft stone & it easily happens, especially if you are a bit heavy with the pressure.
The main issue is not usually the surface roughness as making sure it is flat. Very often stones are not flat even from the factory or the quarry in the case of natural stones. Although from my experience with Norton stones the flattening stone can make them a little rough. As mentioned, the best way is loose sic powder on a lapping plate. In absence of a lapping plate you can use a cookie sheet on a known flat surface like a granite topped table or countertop.
Okay lets back up a bit and explain why these recomendations came about
The Norton 4/8 gained its rep early on when they were made in the US
Sometime around 2009ish the production of the 4k moved to Mexico and the hone was quite rough and needed quite a bit of "Work" to get it smoothed up
Sometime around 2012ish the production of the 4k was moved to Italy and the hone was much better again, still not quite as good as the early US made, but nowhere near as bad with the Mexico made 4k
The 8k never changed to my knowledge
What does the box say or the hone ???
The voids in the Mexico made 4k are nearly double that of the American and Italian
That my friend is the rest of the story
ps: During that time period you can find reference to all this on the forum
Thanks for the detailed explanation Did not expected this much.
My 4K/8K is made in Italy(4K) and USA (8K) Good.
My 220/1K is made in Mexico. So much work to do.
Thanks again.
Sylvain
And the really great thing about flattening Nortons is that you get to do it again and again and again and again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fauvel
:rofl2:
You can help yourself greatly by getting some SIC powder in various grits. That will make life much easier and, IMO does a better job than the flattening stone of leaving a smoother and more consistent surface. The flattening stone is good for just.that, flattening. For dressing the surface SIC is hard to beat
You can pick it up cheap on the bay or Amazon. You just have to shop it a little. Depending on where.you are, if there is a good hobby shop you might find it locally. It is used with rock tumbler sets so if they carry those they likely have the powder.
My first stones were Norton's and I loved em, learned to hone on em.
I did get kind of jarred off with the constant soaking so I treated myself to some Naniwa Superstones.
I still love my Nortons, but Oh those Nannies are so nice to use and just splash and go.
SO, almost one year of procrastination, both my razors (both Dovo En vogue 105) were blunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by STF
I took out my Norton 4000/8000 and Naniwa 12000 and Norton lapping stone (will buy a
lapping plate and powder). Did not prep the stone to see. Sharpened on 8000 then12000
stropped and tried to shave. It was better but not optimal.
Then used the lapping stone on both sharpening stone. The process was long and tedious.
Then I resharpened one razor, 8000 and 12000 again but for longer (twice as long). The shave
was better but I suspect it can be better. Then using the lapping stone again it was faster.
SO I conclude that I should have used the lapping stone to prep both the 8000 and 12000
(and 4000 I guess too).
Question 1 : am I right, the Naniwa 12000 also need to be prepped before first use.
Question 2 : on both stones the I have metal deposit mostly on the sides of the stones
See the 12000 Naniwa photo. Is not the stone that is not straight or the
razor?
Next week-end I pull out the stones again a resharpen (I want to try both razor this week,
one is sharpened once, the second has been resharpened a second time).
And second project, replace the scales of 2 razors I have not used for years. And buying
a decent lapping plate and powder.
Attachment 346186
Question 1 : Draw a pencil grid on any stone & lapping tell you if the stone is flat or not.
Question 2 : Looks like you are pushing the razor up & down the stone with your fingers on the heel & toe. Chances are the spine is warped. Try using X strokes.
Pretty beat-up for a Naniwa 12k.....
That is a 25 lap stone at most, IMO.
It's going to have to be bad sharp to go to that stone. You should be shaving off the 8 before going to the 12.
Look for Lynn Abrams video on pyramid honing on Norton 4/8. It will get you started and realize good results by allowing you to see what happens as you progress to other stones. Soon, you will develop your own technique.
I did this and still use 4/8 Norton.
I have added a Naniwa green 1k to start on some and a 12k to finish.
Never strayed much from there. Most of my edges last forever on most razors with proper stropping.
Shaves are great for me. Others go wild with hones. Another hobby for certain!
I consider honing a chore. Gotta get it done so I can shave! ;)
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I agree with the above post from Sharpton. You should be able to obtain a very sharp/shavable edge with just the 4/8 Norton. I did it for years. If you cannot get an excellent shave from the Norton 8k then you need to go back to the Norton 4k for a few laps, 10-25, then on to the 8k again.
It can be done.
Could be that the bevel is not properly set. If they have been shaving well then probably not unless they somehow got damaged. Remember that is doesn't have to be along the whole length. The edge can be perfect along the whole blade except the toe or the heel or even a small section in the middle and the shave will be off. That is the reason why any test you do needs to be done along the whole length.
This type of edge for instance is a trick to hone.
Attachment 346201
See the way the toe curves between the red lines? The toe is curved as is the heel (smiling edge) but the spine is straight. That wider part of the edge will contact the hone sooner and hold the toe and heel off the stone.
Attachment 346199
See how both are not touching the plate? With a straight stroke the middle will be honed keen (and eventually worn away) but the toe and heel will not even touch. This requires a rolling x stroke to get the whole edge.
As oz said you may be pushing on the toe and heel against the stone with your fingers. The hone could be sow bellied or your edge could have a frown. The first test is to get a good straight edge and check your edge, lengthwise the whole width, across the whole length and diagonally both directions. If you see light under it at any point then it definitely needs lapping. I would say that it probably does as that is a lot of wear for that stone.
