Thread: Shapton Ceramic on glass hones

Great discussion here, guys. I'm really looking forward to following your progress.

Ken

I'm still waiting for my new Shapton Diamond on Glass Lapping Plate (DGLP to the woodworker community that uses Shapton products).

An Australian woodworker emailed me this morning and told me coincidentally he's been shaving with straights for 20 years! He knows about the B&B site, but I encouraged him to join here.

Anyway he says he uses an older ceramic stone similar to the Spyderco dry rather than wet. He's going to try the Shapton ceramic on glass dry rather than wet and let me know his thoughts.

My 16000 grit ceramic on glass is "waiting in the wings" for the DGLP to get here so I can lap it properly. I have a bunch of mid grit naturals (Yellow/Blue coticules, Tam and Chinese 12K) but for bevel setting, I'm torn on whether to buy the Shapton ceramic on glass 1000 grit or the 2000 grit..... I haven't decided yet.

Either way, when I get the DGLP for lapping and get a bevel setting grit Shapton stone, I'll most likely be putting my DMT 325 & 1200 grits up for sale on SRP.

Chris L

I dont know if anyone has checked out the side by side comparison of all the popular hones done on B&B http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29575 but it seems the shapton 16k got the thumbs up over there and that looked like a pretty thorough test.

Fwiw.

I know the thread is about Shaptons glass-backed hones - the equal of the Pro series in function, and cheaper - but there is something I would add about the diamond glass lapping plate.

It's addictive.

Not only does it flatten and clean steel residue from the hones, it works some special magic on an unrelated hone - the Spyderco UF. I've seen the video of the Spyderco rep saying it's a 2000 mesh hone, and I have read that it is the same ceramic mix as the coarser hones, and the etched pattern on the surface determines the grit/mesh equivalent. To tell the truth, I had no luck from the UF at all and wasn't using it until I got the DGLP. Now I have lapped the machining marks from its surface, and I have been trying to fit it into the series of Shaptons I use when progressing through them. I thought it was right, at first, between the 8k and the 15k, and would finish on the 30k. Just lately I have been trying things in a different order, and I'm getting really nice results from using the UF last. I wish I had some way of measuring the grit that would work here, but I don't see how without a scanning electron microscope. If Spyderco use one ceramic mix and mill the surface into the grit they want, then the more I lap the finer stone I have, up to the point at which I come up against the particle size in their mix. As things stand, I would strongly recommend the Shaptons, but if you can afford the DGLP then the Spyderco UF might save you buying the 15k and 30k. For all I know, it might be used on the medium and fine Spydercos to good effect also, but I don't have them and can't justify them with the Shaptons here to use.

Chris

I'm getting a few Shapton GS stones for my AS kitchen knives. I've been in discussions on the KF Kitchen knives forum and I'm pulling the GS stones... I've used the progression from 220 to 2k flatten the bevel on a T. Masamoto blue steel Takobiki. They cut well and stayed reasonably flat durring the 3 hours of grinding

If they stand up to that treatment a straight will take FOREVER to dish one

Just took the plunge yesterday and ordered the 16k - I'm getting an interesting mix happening with my whetstones as time goes by:

2-4k no-name ex-oilstone -> 4k Norton -> 6k (ish) natural Japanese -> 8k Norton -> 8-10K natural Taiwanese -> 10-12k (ish) natural Japanese -> 16k Shapton.

Thank heavens my HAD is only limited to the Asian continent, otherwise I'd have to try to slip the Belgians and Thuringians in there too

James.

My Shapton DGLP has taken FOREVER and....supposedly tomorrow is the day I get it. I told my wife, Sunday night I'm disappearing downstairs for lap-and-hone-orama!

I bought a Shapton 2000 grit ceramic on glass plate that I think will work very well for setting bevels; so now I have the 16000 and the 2000 waiting to be lapped and used.

I'm very intrigued by what Dr. Moss said about the Diamond on Glass Lapping Plate (DGLP) and the favorable things it does to the Spyderco UF..........

Chris L

BTW: This place is giving free shipping on Shapton Ceramic on Glass Plates; it's where I ordered the 2000 from and the shipping was very fast: http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q!0000000.htm

I have the Shapton ceramic on glass 4K, 8K and 16K along with the diamond on glass lapping plate. I also have the Pro Shapton 15K stone and like these on glass Shaptons tons better. I find the 4K and the 8K are very similar to the Norton 4K/8K that I use and have had very nice results from them. I have experimented between the 16K and my Escher and still like the Escher a little better. I only use 10 strokes usually with either one. I have used the lapping plate on everything I own but the Syperco UF and it is amazing. The 16K is not bad though and with a little diamond paste or chromium oxide, you can get very nice results. I have been playing around with the Spyderco UF for months and still do not have consistent results, but have ended up with a few very nice shavers from it. I'll give it a try on another 100 razors and see what happens.

Have fun,

Lynn

I have to say I admire those of you willing to risk a $300 diamond plate to try and fix a $50 hone that according to the manufacturer is not meant to be flattened, not to mention someone reporting ruining a DMT diamond plate in the attempt. At least the DMT is only about $55 or so.

The comments on the ceramic on glass hones is very interesting, I had quite decided on the Pro stones but hesitated due to the reports of warping hones, not to mention their fragile nature when worn down. It was only then it dawned on me that these hones are not *fired* as most hones are but rather they are grit in a resin binder such as polyester or epoxy type resins which would be more susceptible to absorbing water and expanding unevenly, no matter how little. Now the glass hones make sense to me. It seemed to take away from the use of such an accurate diamond glass or cast iron reference plate if, when you returned to a Pro hone, it may have lost it's flatness, just from a change in moisture content. The on glass resin stones would seem to be more ridged, using the glass substrate to resist warping as well as the reduced thickness of the resin which also would reduce tensions and with the glass plate as the substrate would allow one to wear the stone itself down to paper thin before it requires replacement.

As I understand it, the use of the diamond plate should be immediately before actual use to true up the stone, eliminating any warping from retained moisture and that truing a stone after use is worthless as it may again warp before next use. So, while the stones don't require soaking and the instructions indeed say to not leave the stones in water, the need to flatten just before use would seem to take as much time as soaking a Norton. However, the reports of superior honing quality still intrigue me enough to try this system.

I'm going to hold off for a short while yet.... I still seem to have some smoke trailing from my credit cards... I have no idea why.


Regards

Christian

Did any of you gents who bought the glass hones also buy a Shapton Sharpening Stone Holder? If you did, was it really worth it to you? It's nice that it's made from rubber, but $80?!?! Seems a tad steep to me.

Regards

Christian