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The vintage Escher stones that I have seen have come with end labels of Dark Blue, Yellow Green, Light Green, and Blue Gray. I have put them in the order that I believe they would be used for progressive honing. I assume that Escher must have published either an instruction sheet detailing the the intended use of the various colors or in advertising within catalogs for barber supply houses. Anyone have any print material on the color code used by Escher ?
Jimmy,
I haven't seen such a list, but I would assume that the price would have indicated the quality more than color.
As to the order you put the stones in, I don't have a clue as I only have one greenish grey colored Escher type stone.
However, I don't think it is color that determines the stones character. I think that there are two things to look for.
One is that the better stones will have an even color without blemishes or flaws.
Two, the size and quantity of the grit that is released for honing. Usually, the softer stones yield the most grit.
I think that there are probably superb examples of hones in all colors and Escher had the reputation as the brand that sold high quality stone.
Not sure that this helps, but I tried or maybe I'm just trying.
I believe you're correct here. I was having such a conversation with a longtime experienced member recently about this very subject. He owns and has used Eschers for a very long time. His position is that the labels do NOT definitively dictate the quality and ability of one "Escher" over another. He strongly disagrees with such a notion. In his opinion, a flat claim can not be made that a dark blue Escher will always be substandard to a yellow green Escher. I have experience with Thuringian hones (Hohenzollern, unlabeled Thuringian stones) and more experience with Belgian Coticules. I have found variances form stone to stone. Some subtle, some very obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by English
Bottom line regarding Escher brand stones; we obviously can't help but be fixated on the labels (end labels) but it all comes down to how each stone performs, that's what matters. Just like razors: it all comes down to how each one shaves. I would disagree with anyone who would make a statement that a yellow green will always perform better than a blue green, dark blue, etc.
Chris L
Thanks English. In the past I read at least one post on the forum that suggested the order in which to use the Escher series. In speaking with a collector of Escher stones the axiom that all natural stones are individual was pointed out. So you have to try the stone. I accept that but my intuition tells me that the Escher company printed up those labels as a selling point and must have given an explanation for them. I am assuming that this must have been detailed in catalogs of the time offering hones to barbers, tool and die makers, or even rabbis. I am hoping that there is a forum member out there with one of these who can shed some light on this.
I do not know for sure but am willing to speculate that the color does make a difference and the stones were labeled accordingly, why else label them. The color would probably indicate cutting ability, one color having more the next color having less. I would like to see either an explanation in some old catalog or sales advertisement, the color had to mean something other than color, thus the labels.
Somewhere, in the land of Deutsch, there undoubtedly has to be a vintage catalog which includes descriptions of Eschers.
Can anyone who is familiar with the language ask one of the German razor sites about this?
I don't sprech that language.
Chris L
The only reason I'm skeptical of this is that the instructions – for blue, yellow-green, all the colors – is identical. Nowhere is any sequence alluded to. And of all the companies to market thuringians only Escher & Co. graded their stones.Quote:
Originally Posted by nun2sharp
The old geological encyclopedia entries on "German waterstones" mention in passing that the "brownish" stones – which I take to refer to what we call yellow-green – are generally considered superior. I tend to think it's basically the equivalent of the quality grades on coticules (as opposed to say, blue vs. yellow Belgians or the distinct grits of various Scotch hones). I've had eschers of various colors, and frankly haven't seen much variation in the quality of the edges.
Very interesting, Dylandog.
I have a "Fox" brand razor hone that is Thuringian and is advertised on the paper label in the box as the "best in the world" (marketing claim of course). But, it looks nothing like the other Thuringians I have or have seen. It is in fact brownish purple with figure and NOTHING even remotely close in color to a YG Escher or any other color Escher for that matter.
Chris L
A BIG +1! Thanks Chris for reviving this thread. If you observe my avatar you will see four Eschers, a dark blue, blue/green, light green and yellow/green. All of the stones are labeled so there is no doubt as to what they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris L
I stuck my foot deep in my mouth in another thread when I said that the dark blue was equivalent to a 4K. I had just gotten the blue and made the statement on the basis of the Belgian blue. A different animal. Since then using the hones I am thinking that my particular dark blue Escher may be the hardest of the four stones.
I will eventually figure out where I think they all fit in the scheme of things but it appears that they are all finishing stones. It would be nice to find some sort of printed matter put out by Escher describing the stones and what their explanation might be.
Wow, that is interesting indeed. I'd always assumed it was just the yellow-green being referred to...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris L
How are the edges off that Fox hone?
Interesting, Jimmy. I did wonder why you thought the dark blue was so coarse. The one I scored recently if you remember, which also has bottom and end label very nicely intact is definitely a fine finishing stone and is also a hard stone like you've found.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD
In my life right now, I have almost zero time to hone and try the stones I own. Or, I should say I need to spend less time actually on SRP and more time in "Razorville" as my wife calls my area of the basement I've set up. I have no excuse for that.
Blaireau has commented something to the effect that in his opinion, the dark blue Eschers are the lowest grade Escher and therefore the least of the Escher performers. If I got his opinions of that stone wrong, I hope he can correct me here. I can not comment on the dark blue since I have yet to put it through the paces, but by feel (which has been a good indicator to date for me), it seems to be a top notch stone.
See comment above :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by dylandog
Must make time to hone!!!!!!
Chris L
Chris, I don't want to put words in Blaireau's mouth and then quote him :) but....... in conversations with him I think his assessment is based on the dark blue being the least collectible. I may be wrong. Blaireau values the yellow/green most highly and that is the most collectible. He told me he had a Fox that was definitely a yellow/green and that it was a great stone.
I have inquired of some of the heavy hitters in honing and stone collecting and they pretty much agreed that all of the Eschers are finishing stones. As a matter of fact Lynn has used all of them and favors the blue/green which he still uses.
Like you I need to do more honing with them to come to a conclusion. I have so many stones that I tend to neglect focusing on the Eschers but I have come to the conclusion that the light green with slurry does an excellent job in sharpening a razor and is good for finishing with water only.
My lately acquirred yellow/green is a killer finisher. I haven't tried it with slurry yet but as a finisher with water only I got a smooth as silk shave off of the hone. (after stropping)
I have used the blue/green a lot as it was my first Escher and my first natural finishing stone. It is also a hell of a water only finisher. I have to try it with slurry too and see what that is about.
The dark blue as I said earlier is a finisher. At least in the few times I used it as such it did a first rate job. Here again my individual stones have these characteristics based on my particular technique. As Russel and Randy are always pointing out all natural stones are different so maybe others will come to different conclusions with their Eschers. They ain't like buying a set of GlassStones. :shrug:
As of late, I have been experimenting with my Blue/Green Escher and just recently acquired a literally NOS Dark Blue Escher-in the box never lapped.
I have not yet succumbed to the 30K Shapton Glass hone-but I have found that using the 16k AS WELL as the Eschers have resulted in some VERY comfortable shaving razors. Although sometimes not SCARY sharp-certaintly sharp enough for VERY comfortable shaves.
One thing about honing....just when you think you have it figured out-you realize you don't.:hmmm: Every blade is different-every rock is different. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun and we couldn't justify spending more money.:roflmao
The SRP has scored a first in American journalism, all of the quotes attributed to me are CORRECT!!! I rank the Y/G highest because it is the most collectable but I also believe that it slightly edges out the other Eschers on the smoothness of finish, but this may be a self-fulfilling prophecy. All these stones are great finishing hones, the best that Europe has to offer. I think that the colors indicate the hardness of the chalk matrix with the Y/G being the softest. I'm basing this on personal experience as well as the label on a Fox Y/G that I sold some time ago which made a point of stating that the stone is very soft. In any event, we are all priviledged who have one or more (like Jimmy :-)) of these stones, they are a joy to hone with. BTW, sometimes when I hone the razor never rocks and other times it rocks as if I have Parkinson's! I think that the honing quality imposed by the "honemeister" probably has more to do with subsequent performance than the Escher stone quality! Just a thought.
i have to blame Chris L for this
Great idea ! ";" I'll blame him for my Shaptons, Bart for my coticules and Blaireau for my Eschers. The Nortons are Lynn's fault. :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
You may try the Stukenbrok catalogue. I have a Stukenbrok razor hone that is basically a rebranded Escher: http://straightrazorpalace.com/show-...-disguise.html
Stukenbrok catalogues have been reprinted (beautiful graphics) and are sold by Amazon.
Thanks Kees. I took a look on Amazon and they are in the twenty to thirty dollar range. Do you know if they have detailed information on sharpening stones ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyH-AD
No, but on ebay.de they are cheaper, check here: eBay: stukenbrok, Bücher, Sammeln Seltenes, Antiquitäten Kunst