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I was wondering about the ingredients of a barber's hone. (Specifically the American Swaty and the Itsapeech, which I am buying.) I've searched the forums, and all I've found is they are made of ceramic. But what is the cutting agent? (I mean the equivalent to the garnets in yellow/blue Belgians.)
Thanx,
Christopher
I think that it is aluminum oxide. At least I know some of the Swatys are if not all.
Almost all of the barber hones were made by a company I believe in Iowa Tilly used to sell them because she bought out the lot when the company went under. Possibly American Abrasives. So the story goes there was a woman who worked for the company who mixed the ingredients and it was some big secret or something and only she had the recipe and when she either left or died no one knew how to make the stuff. They had to start from scratch.
Those "maroon" colored stones are made from a naturally occurring ore called Bauxite (Red Dirt); it is a mixture of Aluminum Oxide and Iron Hydroxide (rust or rogue). Though aluminum oxide is white in color, the ore is red because of the Iron Hydroxide.
Both aluminum and iron oxides are abrasives. It is milled to a powder and mixed with binder, pressed, and fired just like pottery... (and then you have a Swaty)
It was called the American Hone Company located in Monrovia Iowa.
The lady who made the hones had a recipe book of the ingredients but the process was not written down. Tilly did buy out the inventory of hones and some of the linen but passed on the barrels of shellac. Supposedly the asking price for the recipes was $6,000.00. They also had the pressure molds there. The company is still operating but under a different name and not making hones anymore. Tilly used to have a website at redtrader99.com but that URL is not working anymore. Maybe she is still selling on Ebay?
American Hone CO
111 East Chariton
Moravia, IA
52571
Phone: (641) 724-3714
I have not heard of anyone performing an analysis of the composition of the classic barber hones.
Just to add a bit more to the story here: The parent company is Success Barber Supply, still in business. The woman (hone maker) was supposedly trained by Franz Swatty himself. She died Christmas day about 2005 and all her hone knowledge went with her to the grave. When I talked with the people at Success Barber/ American Hone Co. I was told that there were no recorded recipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
So the recipes/ methods were recorded and available for $6K? I have a high regard for those hones. Almost tempting...
I've searched for that hone that you have Honedright and I am unable to find it. I sure hope someday someone decides to resell theirs.
It's a great hone in my opinion, but there are other vintage hones out there to find. Keep checking on eBay and/or antique stores (2nd street in Pomona is lined with several antique shops) for barber hones.Quote:
Originally Posted by canyon289
You might consider checking the internet for barber supply shops. Not just the big ones like Appleton's, but the yellow pages for the little local shops around the country. You may find a shop that still has NOS American Hone Company hones in stock. It is a lot of work to go that route, but that is how I found mine ;).
Also, many of the current production hones seem to work very well for many of the members here, including your Norton. So you do have many options.
Scott
Thanks for the update!:) My info came from Tilly and second hand sources. Tilly said she had bought the hones and linen but had passed on the barrels of shellac and the pressure molds. The recipe/process info came second hand and I think it was in Bladeforums.com.Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
But...if you talked with company then you have the straight scoop.
Since I live in Iowa, someday I intend to make a pilgrimage to Monrovia just to see what I can see!
And one final note - the people at Success told me that after their hone maker died, they tried to reproduce the hones themselves, but they were unsuccessful. Too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
I thought it might be worthwhile for them (or even someone else??) to do some serious research and, based on the ingredients involved, and the equipment used, attempt a stronger effort to reproduce the hones. But apparently there is no real desire to do so. Once again too bad as I fear that the true synthetic "Swaty" style barber hone may now be a lost art.
Scott
Please do, Ron. I for one would be very interested in hearing about and seeing pictures from such an excursion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I agree, too bad Scott. At this point, if anyone did successfully recreate one of the American Hone Company hones or a Swaty, at best they'd get a sense of accomplishment but find very little demand for such a specialized product.Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
Chris L
The NEW Franz Swaty could be made in the bigger 6x2 size too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris L
Hmm...I wonder how much it would cost to play...
Me
Utopian...if you can set up a tour of the facility I would like to go along. I mean this , for real stuff. I would love to see the pressure molds etc.
Let me know if your serious.
I lapped the two barber hones ("The Swaty Three Line Razor Hone" & Itsapeech) today. The Swaty has small silvery grits, but the Itsapeech has...well...peach-colored grits. Is that why they named it Its-a-peech?
(By the way, the Itsapeech has no identifying mark on it. But I'm taking the seller's word that it's an Itsapeech.)
Thanx,
Christopher
sorry to resurect this thread, but its a pretty interesting one.
I bought a barber hone from Tilly (redtrader99) a few years ago. I was wondering what micron the particles are in the hone.
My hone is small and black (not red/pink). Do I have a Swatty? I'm sure it is a Lithide hone now I come to think of it. Is this what people are calling a swatty?
Anyone know what grit size it is?
Thanks
No it is not a Swaty The Swaty is the Franz Swaty Barber hone and it has the name Embosed into it, it is also red.
THe Lithide is a different barbers hone altogether. Small, 4x3 or so and flat black. It is a fine finishing hone, used in progression after the 8k but before a 16k level. The Lithide hone is quite capable of putting very nice comfortable final polish on a razor, or of refreshing an edge that is uncomfortable to shave with but still cutting prtty well. As an experiment I would use it for about 20 to 30 strokes as the final stone after your 8k and then shaving with it, see what it does and how you like it.
yea Bauxite is aluminum ore however the concentration of aluminum in it is really small which is why they scrape it up in really big operations. I would think to make a hone from it they would need to concentrate the aluminum unless there is something else in it in larger amounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by smythe
Well… I stand corrected… they wouldn’t simply use the bauxite in its raw state.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
They do however get the aluminum oxide from bauxite… it is mixed with clay (pottery clay) as a binder; the binder (the one used in the Swaty type hones) gets its reddish brown color iron oxide impurities (and a few other minerals).
This process was pioneered by the Norton Company making its verified grinding wheels and the technology was passed to making razor hones.
I have been reading a few interesting books on the subject…
Have a look at this link
Google book Abrasives & abrasive wheels, their nature, manufacture and use:
Abrasives & abrasive wheels, their ... - Google Books
Do a search in the book for "sharpening stone". Or go to page 83 (chapter 4), Title Artificial Sharpening Stone... though this deals with Carborundum stones, the same applies to the Swaty type stones (slightly different ingredients).
In fact the whole book makes very interesting reading on how they made abrasives back then.
The above link does not give you much to read.
This one gives you the whole book:
Internet Archive: Free Download: Abrasives & abrasive wheels, their nature, manufacture and use; a complete treatise on the manufacture and practical use of abrasives, abrasive wheels and grinding operation ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kees
I must say… no offence but… your statement is a bit misleading… the link in my post IS the whole book. And you can download as a PDF file, or read online as text.
The link you presented is the same book in an alternate presentation. And I am sure some folks will find more comfortable to read… thank you for the link.
@smythe: the original link only gave me parts of pages that's why I googled the book and found a link that gave me the complete book. I only wanted to share as it is my experience that when one member has problems with a link it happens to others as well. Just trying to be helpful.