Chosera VS Superstone

Does anyone have both of these Naniwa Hones? I'm debating on buying the Naniwa Super 12k from Don and Lynn. I want something inbetween the Coti and Crox pasted strop. Maybe even add a Shapton 16k in. The Chosera 10k lists around 270 bucks, while the Naniwa Super is around 70 bucks on Straight Razor Designs...I guess to quote Pulp Fiction, Will I know where that extra money went?
That's a huge diff in price, Yes, your right, I do have HAD and I will eventually buy both, but Money is an issue, so I'm leaning twoards the Super 12k...Any advice, thoughts, Comments....Rich

I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually bought both too. With the price difference I would probably go with the 12k super and the shapton 16k and still have a hundred in my pocket. :shrug: As far as the Chosera, I would wait until money wasn't an issue ........ but of course it always is. :gaah:

I know you've probably seen this post and it's probably what inspired this topic, but just for the sake of completeness for people searching in the future, this thread has a few thoughts on the matter, and Lynn's post there in particular directly compares the two.

It sounds like the chosera 10k would be a more versatile stone, giving the same results as the super 12k, only it's harder and can be used for more tasks (chisels, etc) where the softer super 12k might get damaged. If you're only going to use the hone for straights, though, based on Lynn's brief review, it sounds like the super 12k is the obvious choice between these two (unless money is no object). I guess this leaves the real question, then, how does the super 12k compare to the shapton 16k. I'd also like to know. Both of those stones are in a price range that is reasonable for my HAD to attack.

Zib, price also is determined by the size of the stone. The Choseras are all 30mm thick and the superstones come in either 10mm or 20mm thick. So if you multipy the price of the superstone to match the size of the Chosera stones, prices come out to be a little closer in price. Larger stones ussually will always go for a premium.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually bought both too. With the price difference I would probably go with the 12k super and the shapton 16k and still have a hundred in my pocket. :shrug: As far as the Chosera, I would wait until money wasn't an issue ........ but of course it always is. :gaah:

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That's my plan Jimmy.....

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Originally Posted by ZethLent

Zib, price also is determined by the size of the stone. The Choseras are all 30mm thick and the superstones come in either 10mm or 20mm thick. So if you multipy the price of the superstone to match the size of the Chosera stones, prices come out to be a little closer in price. Larger stones ussually will always go for a premium.

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You know, you're right. I saw that, but it didn't click. They are quite thick. That would explain the higher cost, Heck, the should cut them in half, or make a 20mm stone so they'r more affodable, I bet they'd sell a lot more....Thanks for the info....

In one of the older threads on the chosera 10k, there was some talk of cutting the stones up among a couple potential buyers, and selling smaller versions that way. If you could split it height-wise, and then once down the middle, you could go 4 ways with 3 others, for around the price of a super 12k, only the stones would be ~8" x1 5/16" x 0.5". I wonder how this would affect the stone, or if it'd be worth it? I would almost be interested at that price point for a stone that size. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do this though, and I have no idea if it's even feasible to split the stone height-wise without risk of damaging it, and it's damn expensive to damage, lol.

I pulled the trigger on the Naniwa 12k....Damm this HAD.....Next up Shapton 16k.
I'm looking forward to the Naniwa, Don tells me they're a pretty fast cutter....

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Originally Posted by zib

I pulled the trigger on the Naniwa 12k....Damm this HAD.....Next up Shapton 16k.
I'm looking forward to the Naniwa, Don tells me they're a pretty fast cutter....

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That was fast! Make sure to let us know what you think when you've used it a bit..

Probably should have just added the Shapton to the same order and saved on shipping in the long run :hmmm:;)

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Originally Posted by pjrage

In one of the older threads on the chosera 10k, there was some talk of cutting the stones up among a couple potential buyers, and selling smaller versions that way. If you could split it height-wise, and then once down the middle, you could go 4 ways with 3 others, for around the price of a super 12k, only the stones would be ~8" x1 5/16" x 0.5". I wonder how this would affect the stone, or if it'd be worth it? I would almost be interested at that price point for a stone that size. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do this though, and I have no idea if it's even feasible to split the stone height-wise without risk of damaging it, and it's damn expensive to damage, lol.

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I have a wet saw, but that's a pricey stone to take a chance with. I could cut into 4 equal pieces, but as far as a "Filet Cut" goes, My saw will only cut 1 inch thick. Although, I could probably get my hands on equipment to do it..

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Originally Posted by zib

I have a wet saw, but that's a pricey stone to take a chance with. I could cut into 4 equal pieces, but as far as a "Filet Cut" goes, My saw will only cut 1 inch thick. Although, I could probably get my hands on equipment to do it..

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I guess with performance so similar to the super 12k as far as straight razors go, there's probably no real point in risking it.

Agreed. It's not like your cutting a Chinese 12k.....

Zib,

I posted thanks because I appreciate the thread. I myself have been considering the naniwa superstone 12k as a finisher.

I'm looking forward to your impressions of the stone, i.e., how it laps, the edge it gave, the feel, etc.

Just a thought on the thickness of the Chosera in relation to price. If a company is making a stone and targeting a specific market they will price it accordingly. It is that thick and expensive because it is made for honing plane irons and chisels. More pressure and more flattening = more wear hence the thicker stone.

It would take the average guy two lifetimes to wear one of those out honing straight razors so unless it is just head and shoulders above the rest in getting razors sharp I am going to leave the Chosera to the tool guys......maybe. :hmmm:

I agree Jimmy, That's what I heard, it's mainly for Chisels and whatnot, The super is better for Str8's. I will definitely keep you guys posted when I get the stone. I'm going to use razors that are shave ready, off a Coti, one's I normally hit with the Chinese 12k, and see what the Naniwa does. Maximillian tells me he loves his, kicked all his other rocks to the curb. You think he has an Escher for me, that needs a good home..Maybe a small rehoming fee? Where are you Max?:w

P.S. PJ, I thought the same thing about the Shapton, (save on shipping) but Don's out of the Shapton 16k right now, Damm the bad luck:mad:

I now have the Naniwa, Superstone 800/5000 and a Naniwa Chosera 10K.

I set the bevel with the 800, move onto the 5000, then 10000 and then a few laps on CrOx and then strop. Quick simple efficient and very effective.
A smooth shave ready razors edge every time.

Unbelievably boring really.

The observation I would make is that the Chosera is a harder stone than the Superstone. This said, the Chosera is a much softer hone than I am used to and the Superstones are very soft.

All three grits get "dirty" very quickly and the rubbing stone cleans them back to new again very quickly.

As to the life of the hones. Well, they are not like a coticule. They release the surface very easily because they are so soft. This combined with the need to clean them with a surface releasing rubbing stone, means the surface is breaking down quite quickly relative to a harder stone.

So I think a professional will find the hone will not last as long as say a Chinese 12k but the stone hones like grease lightning. Time is money. Naniwa knows that and has priced the stones accordingly.

I hope that helps explain some of the differences.

I agree. I just used my Naniwa 12k on a probem child razor, an old Puma 90. It's one of those razors that no matter what you do it shaves so so. I tried all kinds of combos with it. I'm still working. This time, I used the Naniwa 12k as my finisher (hone wise) that is. Sometimes, I'll go to Diamond pastes and/or Crox. Depends on the blade. Anwyay, The naniwa 12k did need some lapping. I started with my D8XX, moved to a D8C, then the whole progression of Wet/Dry Sanpaper. 220 - 1000K. It's a beautiful soft salmon color stone. I did only about 15 passes on the Naniwa 12k, it's fast. To me, less is more. When hear guys talking about doing 200 passes on their coticule I cringe. There is such a thing as "Overhoning". If your not using a Chinese 12k, then move to a differerent grit. Anyway, getting off track.

I think the Naniwa line of stones are well worth the money. Easy to lapp. Easy to use and fast cutters. I bought mine off Don and Lynn. Don as always was very helpful. I'll probably buy the entire line. I'd like to see what they'll do from start to finish. You can buy all of them 10k,8k, 5k,3k, 1k, 400k, 220k at SRD for under 300 bucks. I left out the 12k because I already have it...What I especially like about these stones is the speed of cutting. You don't have to do 50 or 100 laps like you do on a C12k. I not giving up my C12k, now, I do have my HAD to think about it.

Do the superstones come with a rubbing stone? English mentioned one so that made me wonder.

I received a rubbing stone only with the Chosera and not with the superstone.

You can buy them seperately.

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Originally Posted by English

I received a rubbing stone only with the Chosera and not with the superstone.

You can buy them seperately.

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Is it advisable to buy one for the super stones? Or is there an alternative that maybe most of us already have?

I wonder if the Norton rubbing stone would be adequate?

I used a nagura stone and that worked on the Chosera. But I think you have to be careful not to use a stone that is too hard.

I don't have any norton products.

A little off topic, but I use the Norton synthetic nagura on my Naniwa and other waterstones to do the following things:

1. You can use it to adjust the surface texture of the stone, i.e. smooth the surface left by a coarse lapping plate, or roughen the surface if it seems too smooth so that blades skip and chatter. Just scour the surface and corners and then rinse away the grit very thoroughly.

2. You can use it to clean away stains and embedded swarf without resorting to lapping if that isn't needed yet. Same process as above.

3. You can use it to form a coarse, fast cutting slurry. Scour the surface but don't rinse. This will really boost cutting speed (at the expense of fineness).

Don @ SRD recommended no rubbing stone with the superstone.

To be exact, no slurry. he said you should go to a lower grit if you need to. I agree with the Naniwa. It's very and fine and porous. I saw a pic on here of one that probably swelled from water. Using a slurry IMO is probably not a good idea. I'd agree with Don and Lynn on that one.....

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Originally Posted by zib

Don @ SRD recommended no rubbing stone with the superstone.

To be exact, no slurry. he said you should go to a lower grit if you need to. I agree with the Naniwa. It's very and fine and porous. I saw a pic on here of one that probably swelled from water. Using a slurry IMO is probably not a good idea. I'd agree with Don and Lynn on that one.....

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I wonder if it's recommended/advisable to use a rubbing stone with the supers just to freshen the surface between lappings? English mentioned that even the super stones get "dirty" quickly and that the rubbing stone quickly refreshes them. I don't think he meant to create a slurry with it?

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Originally Posted by English

I now have the Naniwa, Superstone 800/5000 and a Naniwa Chosera 10K.

I set the bevel with the 800, move onto the 5000, then 10000 and then a few laps on CrOx and then strop. Quick simple efficient and very effective.
A smooth shave ready razors edge every time.

Unbelievably boring really.

The observation I would make is that the Chosera is a harder stone than the Superstone. This said, the Chosera is a much softer hone than I am used to and the Superstones are very soft.

All three grits get "dirty" very quickly and the rubbing stone cleans them back to new again very quickly.

As to the life of the hones. Well, they are not like a coticule. They release the surface very easily because they are so soft. This combined with the need to clean them with a surface releasing rubbing stone, means the surface is breaking down quite quickly relative to a harder stone.

So I think a professional will find the hone will not last as long as say a Chinese 12k but the stone hones like grease lightning. Time is money. Naniwa knows that and has priced the stones accordingly.

I hope that helps explain some of the differences.

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I have about 1000 razors done so far on the Super Stones and no sign of wearing out yet. They get used and lapped virtually every day.

Boring........yeah, whatever. I am fond of a "smooth shave ready razors edge every time".

Have fun,

Lynn