Ebay Natural Mystery Hone finer and faster than Swaty

$16

This thing is hard as hell.
It grinds the Swaty with ease when the two are rubbed together.

I have NO IDEA where it came from.
It came off Ebay and the seller got it at an estate sale.
I can say that there were probably tools involved because it was listed under "Chisels" and since the seller was a woman, I doubt she looked at a stone and thought "Chisel" :rolleyes:

anyway

It produces a edge comparable to or finer than fine side of three line Swaty.
It is a hazier edge.

I would place edge between Swaty and 1 micron diamond but much hazier than diamond
I am making these assertions after viewing edge through microscope at 150X

rockhound stuff
scratches with knife
scratches knife
luster
not quite waxy, only VERY SLIGHTLY waxy and it might be oil
(100+yo oil stone)


I understand that everyone is going to say "Arkansas" but as has been pointed out in another thread, there are sources OTHER than Arkansas for this sort of stone.
Based on age it could be from anywhere, could have come back from Japan.
Rockhounds go to war too you know. (I understand this is improbable but am just pointing out possible)
pics!

in box
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone002.jpg

lapping with 100 grit silicon carbide on glass
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone010.jpg

tried a razor but it was still rough
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone034.jpg


Slurry is white and hard to build
when lapped against Swaty it eats Swaty
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone073.jpg

didn't know how many pics per post so made new post

dry, all the rest are wet

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone078.jpg

one side is darker than the other
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone081.jpg


here you can see for sure that one side (the one that was used) is darker because the inclusions block the light

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone089.jpg

it almost looks like wood burl and reminds me of some Japanese stone I saw on ebay
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone102.jpg

the dark side that was used seems rougher
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone103.jpg

I chipped a piece and put it under the scope
sorry the pics aren't better

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone128.jpg

trying to show the crystals along the edge but I can't focus on the edge and surface at the same time
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...newhone136.jpg

so since aluminum oxide cuts it, it must be quartz?
and the crystal structure seems very small
is that micro or cryptocrystaline?

What are the inclusions?

Ideas on origin? (if I can buy a 200yo rock from Belgium then I can buy a rock from anywhere)

so some kind of impure cherd?

why would it cut fast?
I know I've complained about Arkansas being sloooow on razors before, why is this different?



HAHA saw mention of turkey stone in other thread but it isn't how I found this
http://ammin.geoscienceworld.org/cgi...tract/87/4/405
Al2SiO5
and the article lists iron inclusion which would explain the coloring
it also talks about garnet, but I don'tknow what the hell I'm reading so I'll have to click 20 more links
this is the closest pic so far
http://geology.about.com/od/minerals...andalusite.htm

Those geological links are way over my head. On a practical level in my uninformed opinion the mystery hone must be coarser than the Swaty if it is cutting it fast. :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Those geological links are way over my head.

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mine too !!


my understanding of hones is that the shape of the "cutting agent" will affect the speed of cutting as well as depth
the garnets in coticule are larger than the cuts made would suggest

perhaps smaller but sharper "cutting agent"?

I'm """""" ing cutting agent because you can have soft stone with hard crystals to cut
sandpaper for example


wait a minute.... I'm using oil on this, water on swaty
wonder what the difference is
have to go try it dry

check pcture are they similar? took me 45 minute to lap this haven't finished yet? it seems like this is glass stone. next stone is translucent arkansas? let me know.
have you lapped yours?

:cool: Fun stuff for hone addicts!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

check pcture are they similar? took me 45 minute to lap this haven't finished yet? it seems like this is glass stone. next stone is translucent arkansas? let me know.
have you lapped yours?

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yes I have lapped the backside
after 1 hour on 400 grit on glass I had made less than 10 thousandths progress !! :gaah:
Glad it was basically flat already.

I gave up on the dished side !!:(

"glass stone"?

I was gonna call it a
"USMC Drill Sergeant stone"
cause that is one hard sumbitch !!!!:rofl2:

I would say that our stones appear similar, with mine being darker.

Could you post more pics and where did you get it?

it is really hard to lap i did get tired that is why it is not lapped fully. it feels like glass. what type picture you like me to take?
i have no idea how when and from where i bought that hone. i know it does have it is original box and some label used to be on box .it is off already but you can see the old label location. Next to this stone is translucent arkansas similar color but without white dots.

it must be arkansas
oh well
never mind

Something I've discovered concerning novaculite (Arkansas etc.) it that when put to a grind stone or abrasive belt, they will consistantly produce sparks. Not great big sparks such as when grinding a chisel but fine small sparks. This is of course a destructive test but you don't loose much. Arkansas stone is so hard on other abrasives, I've found they will quickly dress my grinding stone/abrasive wheels.

Looks alot like my unknown hone, Arkansas or Wachita (SP) stone. Mine was black from solidified oils, an hour of lapping with a 125 DMT plate got me this far :p

Good Lord, what in heavens name are they?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

Looks alot like my unknown hone, Arkansas or Wachita (SP) stone. Mine was black from solidified oils, an hour of lapping with a 125 DMT plate got me this far :p

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THE MAN!!

I went and looked up Wachita and found pics very close to what I have.
MUCH closer than any Arkansas stone pic I found

maybe different names for the same thing but probably a regional thing
no time to look it up now though

DC
try putting that stone on top of a rag in a pan
add water to cover
add some soap
bake @ 350 for one hour (or until clean)

give it a try

I don't know what the difference is between an Arkansas hone and a Washiła hone, although I do know that the Ouachita Mountains in Arkansas have yielded hones

Washıta indeed comes from these mountains. Washıta and Arkansas are both novaculite stones, but distinct in character. Arkansas-type hones used to be devided into (from soft, coarse, unevenly coloured and expensive to hard, fine, uniformly coloured and more expensive) Washıta, soft Arkansas, hard Arkansas, black hard (or: surgical) Arkansas and translucent Arkansas (the latter two sometimes in reversed order) and within these divisions sometimes marketed according to colour (eg lily white Washıta).

See eg. The handyman's Book by Nooncree Hasluck p123 (Google book here), or Leonard Lee's Complete Guide to Sharpening p31 (with nice SEM illustrations of the particles)(Google book here). Recently someone posted a link to a very nice table showing classification, grit, density, colours. This is the link, but to my regret I can't remember who posted it or were (I just quickly bookmarked it to read later) - sorry for that!

Some members seem to have expert knowledge on these American hones and lots of information can be found in old threads. Most I know about them is directly or indirectly from this forum or one of the woodworker ones. I don't 'do' American natural hones - one has to impose some objective limit to control NHAD - though the recent interest in them hereabouts, and the beautiful pictures like in this thread are slowly massaging me towards reconsideration...

Too late maybe but the stone in the first post is a Hindostan/India stone.

That's not a Hindostan. It's a Hard Arkansas IMO. Is the OP even still around? This threads been dead two years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

That's not a Hindostan. It's a Hard Arkansas IMO. Is the OP even still around? This threads been dead two years.

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I have a very similar one, a bit smaller. You can come across it on ebay uk, it is sold under the name Hindostan. He says it is very hard, this also fits the description. Washita(the only possibility if it is from Arkansas) is not famous for being very hard, whereas Hindostan is.

All novaculite hones are very hard my friend. Even the ones they call Soft Arks are pretty darn hard. I wouldn't call it famous, but of the 15-25 I've flattened by hand, I can tell you ALL Arkansas stones are very hard. By contrast, the 3 hindostan stones I've lapped were fairly easy to flatten. Hindostans are characterized by distinct side banding, and a sedimentary composition. While Arkansas stones are made of novaculite, which is very hard. Please don't assume me condescending, but I believe you need to do a bit more research. The stone on the left is a Washita Arkansas stone, the one on the right is a Hindostan. I am willing to accept that I'm fallible here. So as always, this is just my opinion. If you don't accept what I'm telling you, I can tell you now, we won't convince each other otherwise. So we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

The op's stone is arky, the coloration is the iron oxide that is rusting and causes the discoloration.

I sell Arkansas stones for beer money that I purchase from the quarry, I have stones just like it that I got carried away with and got wet, they were white when I got them, now they look just like the op's stone and I have a hard time selling them now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

All novaculite hones are very hard my friend. Even the ones they call Soft Arks are pretty darn hard. I wouldn't call it famous, but of the 15-25 I've flattened by hand, I can tell you ALL Arkansas stones are very hard. By contrast, the 3 hindostan stones I've lapped were fairly easy to flatten. Hindostans are characterized by distinct side banding, and a sedimentary composition. While Arkansas stones are made of novaculite, which is very hard. Please don't assume me condescending, but I believe you need to do a bit more research. The stone on the left is a Washita Arkansas stone, the one on the right is a Hindostan. I am willing to accept that I'm fallible here. So as always, this is just my opinion. If you don't accept what I'm telling you, I can tell you now, we won't convince each other otherwise. So we'll have to agree to disagree. :)

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I have a brown hindostan, it is probably the hardest rock I have had. I tried many different natural razor stones. I will send a photo when I find it.

"It grinds the Swaty with ease." I haven't tried such an Arkansas yet. If there is, then good no problem.

Since I have 2 that look the same I will say it is a hard Arkansas. The reason that it cuts fast is because you lapped it with the 100 grit silicon carbide which has created sharp edges on the quartz crystals. With use the rate of cutting will get slower and slower as the edges on the quartz crystals get rounded over.

Just my $.02 :)