Question about Thuringens

Hey, Sorry to annoy you all again with a stupid question, but can someone please check this info for correctness/offer advice/commentary? Thanks!

I read somewhere that a rougher NOS Thuringen, when used with slurry, will cut around 5k, but slowly, as it is watered down it will start cutting more like 8k, and dry will polish. I know natural stones vary, but is this a common characteristic? This makes the difference between whether I buy a synth 4k/8k or 3k/8k combo, or just a big NOS Thuringen.

Thanks all!

[QUOTE=khaos;405550 This makes the difference between whether I buy a synth 4k/8k or 3k/8k combo, or just a big NOS Thuringen. Thanks all![/QUOTE]


Having a bit of experience with a lot of hones I would say get the Norton 4/8. Later on if you want a Thuringan for finishing add that to your kit but slurry or no it is not a substitute for a 4/8.

Jimmy is absolutely right . if you are new to honing go head start with 4/8k learn how to hone and later you can go buy any natural stones you like. gl

Okay. Thanks guys. I'll be getting the standard 4k/8k and a vintage Thuringen (small) from Kees as a finisher.
Just one more thing, for the future, so I don't have to start a new thread a month or two from now, is it theoretically possible to use the Thuringen from 5k on to about 10k? Yes, I know variance and what not.

if i understand your questions right?
you are asking to use your thuringians after 5k? is this right?
if this is the question please answer to it Noooooo. Don't do it . you will end up working on thuringians days and will not get anywere.
The best you can do use it after 8k(in your hone selections)
hope this helps

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Originally Posted by khaos

Okay. Thanks guys. I'll be getting the standard 4k/8k and a vintage Thuringen (small) from Kees as a finisher.
Just one more thing, for the future, so I don't have to start a new thread a month or two from now, is it theoretically possible to use the Thuringen from 5k on to about 10k? Yes, I know variance and what not.

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Y'know it is possible to apply a grit rating to a Thuringan , coticule, Chi-Com "12K" but that is only by an individual's comparing their subjective opinion of the results they have gotten using a synthetic hone with the natural. It isn't a hard and fast rule. Some of the naturals you run across will cut faster than others although IME they will be close. So far the half dozen Thuringans I have are basically finishers with or without slurry.

Okay thanks. So unless I really really wanted to, there would be no value to having an 8x3 NOS Thuringen if I already had a smaller vintage Thuringen of better quality? Other than maybe after the 8k, starting with a slurry, working to clear (for arguments sake, 8k working to like 10k) then going to the finer vintage rock to finish (for arguments sake, 12k)

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Originally Posted by khaos

Okay thanks. So unless I really really wanted to, there would be no value to having an 8x3 NOS Thuringen if I already had a smaller vintage Thuringen of better quality? Other than maybe after the 8k, starting with a slurry, working to clear (for arguments sake, 8k working to like 10k) then going to the finer vintage rock to finish (for arguments sake, 12k)

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Just my personal preference but given the same stone I would opt for the 8X3 every time over the smaller stone. As for slurry, I have gotten very good results following an 8k with an Escher with slurry and then diluting down to water only. One of the reasons I began to do the slurry with the Escher is that the label on the stone instructs the user to do that. I figure that those who mined and distributed the hones must have known something about them. :)

Well, my choice is between an 8x3 NOS and a 5x1ish vintage, comparable to Eschers. So I opted for the vintage one, but was wondering if there is any benefit to having both. If I were to come of the 8k and just spend a bunch o ftime on the vintage Thuringen water only and dry, would that work okay?

There is always an benefit to having more stones!
Right Jimmy?:)

The true advantage of a larger hone is that fewer strokes are required. If you are not in a rush, you will get by just fine with the smaller one. I would assume that you have read Bart's thread on one coticule honing, considering your original premise about the grit range of the Thuringian, so you should appreciate that the lower grit work is where you really benefit from the cutting speed of a larger hone. Personally, I've never had a problem using the smaller 1x5 Thuringian for the final polish.

Thanks guys. I guess what I'm gonna do is get that vintage Thuringen then, and combined with some cheap synths (not too cheap, Nortons or the like) and my Swaty, learn how to hone, touch up and/or finish them. My absolute romantic dream is to do all natural honing, somehow combing BBW, coticule, and Thuringen from start to finish, maybe using a japanese once in a while. But I'll learn to hone first.

I agree 100% with Ron, there is always a benefit in having more hones. :) A 5X1 is a nice size, particularly for smiling blades and/or warped spines. I think that when getting used to honing with the 8x3 I've developed a stroke that just feels right with that length hone. I have them from 4" long to 10" and the 8" is the one where I utilize the stroke I am most used to although I can adapt my stroke to the shorter hones with no problem and they are effective. FWIW, Escher made a series of hones labeled "Barber's Delight" that are 5"X2". I have a couple of them and they are real good. The "Old Rock" and "Deep Rock" labeled coticules I have are 4"and 5"x2" and were distributed to barbers back in the old days. Your Swatys and other barber hones were usually short and around 2" wide so there is nothing wrong with the smaller hones and alot of guys prefer them.

The one's Kees has are called "Echter Thueringer Wasserabziehstein" Original/Real Thuringian Water-Whetstone. I doubt they're Eschers, but there are reports they are as good and since they are vintage, they certainly stand a chance to be similar/same stone, different brand. They are 4 7/8" x 1". Anyway. This, the Swaty, the set or synths and a lap stone shouldn't run more than $200 or $250, and I like the idea, so...
Eventually I want a nice big: Escher, BBW, and Coticule for honing, and small: Nat Coms and Eschers/vintage Thuringans for touch ups. Maybe a japanese for fun.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Just my personal preference but given the same stone I would opt for the 8X3 every time over the smaller stone. As for slurry, I have gotten very good results following an 8k with an Escher with slurry and then diluting down to water only. One of the reasons I began to do the slurry with the Escher is that the label on the stone instructs the user to do that. I figure that those who mined and distributed the hones must have known something about them. :)

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I think size choice should depend on if you like to hold the stone while holding or if you put it on a table. I prefer to hold the stone while I hone, and 6" works really well for that. If on the table, the longer the better I'd image.

-Chief

I have a little 5"x1" vintage thuringian. It does take a bit longer to hone on, but if you're not in a rush that's not necessarily a bad thing at all! I've just used my thuringians with water after a coticule (w/ just water) or an 8k. I've never really found the need to use a slurry. I'm sure it would speed things up, but I think you can get just as good of a polish using just water, albeit it may take you more laps to get there.