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I was thinking of buying some half micron chromium oxide and making a hone out of it by mixing it with a minimal amount of epoxy resin, applying it to a glass plate, and then lapping it flat after it hardens.
Has anyone else tried it? Is there any reason this shouldn't produce a substitute for the Shapton 30k?
Here's a link you might find interesting :)
http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...new-hones.html
My comment doesn't completely apply to your question, as you obviously want a hard non-give surface to apply the the chromium oxide to. However, I am quite happy using balsa wood for my chromium oxide. (I cut a 3 inch by 3 foot strip, bought from a hobby store, in half, as is; don't attach it to anything else at the moment.)
I like balsa for my chromium oxide, compared to something more firm. I use a very light touch, and the slight sponginess of the balsa seems to give my edge a more uniform polish than when I used harder substances (like plexiglass.)
Thanks, that's pretty dang close to what I was thinking.Quote:
He made it sound like there were some tricks to it, but I can't quite see what these would be if you don't care about cosmetics.
I already use balsa for my diamonds, though I don't currently own any half micron chromium oxide. It does work well, and I like that it has some give too it, but not too much.Quote:
My comment doesn't completely apply to your question, as you obviously want a hard non-give surface to apply the the chromium oxide to. However, I am quite happy using balsa wood for my chromium oxide. (I cut a 3 inch by 3 foot strip, bought from a hobby store, in half, as is; don't attach it to anything else at the moment.)
I like balsa for my chromium oxide, compared to something more firm. I use a very light touch, and the slight sponginess of the balsa seems to give my edge a more uniform polish than when I used harder substances (like plexiglass.)
The big reason I'd want to make it into a hard deal is so that I could do edge leading strokes, since those tend to form cleaner edges in my experience. I also have the (questionable) feeling that it's easier to create good microbevels without deforming the edge by using solid hones and forward strokes than edge trailing strokes on something like balsa. Perhaps I should actually try running that experiment
Your comment about wanting a hard surface for edge leading strokes has my interest. That does deserve some experimentation. I would appreciate some feedback from you with the results of edge leading, when you have it.
In fact, some time back I ordered some microfine chromium oxide "sandpaper" from 3M. I affixed it to plexiglass using glue. But, I didn't do much experimentation at the time; that's about when I started using balsa wood. You have me thinking about going back for a few experiments of my own with the sandpaper.
I bought some pine the other day for some experiments with paste on a harder surface than balsa wood.
I'm not sure whether I'm gonna try making an epoxy/CrO2 hone yet, but I'll definitely post results if I do.
In the mean time, I've had good results in making small microbevels with the spyderco UF rod and lansky UF one (both ceramic) and then finishing them up with edge trailing strokes on softer material. I'll see if I can get the same results by creating the microbevel directly on balsa.
I have some lapping films to play with as well, but I have a very hard time using edge leading strokes on them without having the edge dig in. It seems like the mylar backing is a bit too soft. Are there any tricks to this? Better lubricants perhaps? Maybe creating the bevel with edge trailing strokes, then slightly lowering the angle and finishing on edge leading?
The backing for the 3M CrO microabrasive sandpaper is tough mylar plastic. Just for grins, I placed a strip on my tabletop, and started edge forward passes using a razor I don't use. It didn't dig in, so I kept increasing the angle I held the blade while forward passing. (Something I would never do, but which increases the chance of the edge digging into the CrO sandpaper.) Finally, I started applying increasing pressure.
No matter how hard I tried, I could not get the edge to dig into the sandpaper. I can guarantee that you can polish a razor with edge first passes on the 3M CrO microabrasive sandpaper all day long with no knicks or similar problems.
I ordered from Lee Valley. Here's the link if interested...
3M Micro-Abrasives for Sharpening - Lee Valley Tools
Hmm...
My only experience with lapping film so far has been with used 1micron diamond lapping film and used 0.3 micron AO lapping film, both grabbed from the trashcan of my uncles fiber optic company. My current stash of the stuff has some bumps and creases which could be causing my problems. I also sharpen more knives than razors and got the impression that it wouldnt work when trying to polish a 10um wide 35 degree included microbevel on top of a larger ~20 degree included microbevel. It could be the large change in angle that causes problems, since all the weight has to fall on 10 microns instead of being supported on the back bevel as well.
I just recieved some new 0.05 micron (decimal is in the right place) AO lapping film to play with, so I'll report back with results.
It's a good thing you said "decimal in the right place", or you would have received a reply from me immediately asking you if you had the decimal in the right place. Oh! You got an email from me anyway. :)
What is AO?
Here is a good thread.
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You can go edge leading with chrome ox on a hard wood bock, if you are carefull.
Charlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryAndro
Huh, I wonder if that would work for coarser grits as well. That could speed up initial roughing in before gettting into the DMT's.
Hehe. I used "AO" to refer to aluminum oxide. Is that not the standard abbreviation here?Quote:
It's a good thing you said "decimal in the right place", or you would have received a reply from me immediately asking you if you had the decimal in the right place. Oh! You got an email from me anyway.
What is AO?
Damn, two threads on the subject. I need to work on my googlefuQuote:
Here is a good thread.
Home made sharpening stones - Knifeforums.com - Intelligent Discussion for the Knife Enthusiast - Powered by FusionBB
You can go edge leading with chrome ox on a hard wood bock, if you are carefull.
Charlie
In the other thread you mentioned that you didn't want to give out the secrets (did you ever figure out where you were going with that project?), but would you mind sharing what kind of problems you ran into?
How careful is 'careful' when edge leading into hard wood?
In the other thread you mentioned that you didn't want to give out the secrets (did you ever figure out where you were going with that project?), but would you mind sharing what kind of problems you ran into?
I had problems with crumbling, burning, bubbles, warping, molding and demolding. Those were the major issues. Randy has been working steady on the hones.
How careful is 'careful' when edge leading into hard wood?
Not very carefull, just pay attention, you can even go edge leading on paper.
Charlie
Attaching a picture from the website link I included earlier that shows the grits available. According to the description, all are on mylar sheets. You wondered whether the ledge first pass would work on coarser grits. If you are asking about the 3M products being sold on the site, I have no doubt that you could sharpen straight razors with edge first passes with no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by joke1176
You're a better man that I if you can effectively work edge leading on .5 micron chrome ox 3M film. I found with water and even with oil the stiction even honing extra hollow blades makes for a chatter like stroke. Not smooth. I didn't care for that at all. YMMV.
Chris L
I've tried films and it does work.
A lot of people use them actually.
As far as diving in - it can happen on any hone as well.
Give the epoxy hone a try!:) Just be sure you figure a way to demold it when it dries!:)
Could those silicone baking molds be used as a mold or does epoxy stick to it? However, warping might be problem.
If it sticks, maybe some breakaway system would work? Using plastic as a sort of liner?
Mylar works real well for a mold release, but i was thinking about just pooling it on glass or something and leaving it there. I still might try it sometime, but spazola's problems seem off putting.
Olivia, what kind of hones have you had a blade 'dive in' to? I've never heard of that, nor does it seem possible with the ones I've used.
Yeah, Mylar, baking paper, parchment, freezer paper...
Jimmy it can happen on soft synthetics like Kings or Naniwas or on a slate like the charnley forest.
Takes only a little of a wrong move.
I would like to clarify what I said earlier...
The context was whether you could physically hone with the sharp edge leading without digging into the mylar backing. I have no idea whether honing on these micro-abrasive 3M sandpapers with the sharp edge leading is a good idea.Quote:
"I have no doubt that you could sharpen straight razors with edge first passes with no problem."
You can.
Just put it wet on a dust free, plain carrier.
Hone, tile, glass or else.
Be careful about heel and toe, but everything else works just fine.
I think that you should try a hone with epoxy as a binder. It sounds like a really good way to go to me. It is on my list of things to try , I have a long list. I have tried using hide glue (among other things) as a binder, but it did not work, I think that using a glue that cures through chemical reaction as opposed to hide glue that cured through evaporation would be a great choice. I think the tricky part would be the ratios and the mixing.
Go for it!
Charlie
Ratio's yes, mixing to an even distribution would be a bear and the air bubbles would need to be vacuumed out. I won't even mention lapping it flat!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by spazola