Thread: Scotch Hone Clarification.

I have a question about the provenance of the stones that we call Water of Ayr. The obvious place to start would be Tucker's Ayrshire Honestones, but I have that and it doesn't answer my question. I understand that a lot of the confusion concerning the WOA stone comes from the fact that both this hone and the TOS were sold indiscriminately as the same stone in the past, and it is only more recently that we make a clear distinction between the speckled Tams and the darker WOA. However, I'm still not sure where the WOA stone comes from. Does it come from the same quarry as the TOS? Or is the stone identified as the WOA quarried at the Meikledale mine mentioned by Tucker? In his book he mentions that TOS stones are glued together with Meikladale hones to make a combo stone. The Meikladale Hone is described as being finer alnd less pure than the TOS. Tucker also names the Meikladale Hone as the Blue Water of Ayr stone in the book. Whilst I have seen blue stones that were identified as WOA by their owners, the stones with labels that identify them as WOA have always been a very dark charcoal/ black coloured stone. So, does the stone we call the WOA come from Meikladale? Or, is the darker stome more recently identified as WOA quarried from the same spot as the TOS, and therefore distinct from the Meikladale stone?

Regards,
Alex

hhmmmm, there is a Dalmore Blue on the back of my Tam O'Shanter
The box has labels, but none indicate a manufacturer or a location.

Maybe if you sent a PM to coully and asked him he might be able to tell you something on that. I too have the pamphlet and it is indefinite on the WOA. A couple of years ago forum member coully was importing the Tams and Dalmores from the fellow that owns the mine presently.

They are quarried here:

The Water of Ayr & Tam OShanter Hone Works Ltd, Manufacture of other non-metall

I have sent them a letter once: no reply. Coully had the same problem so he stopped selling them. The owner is an elderly man who runs the thing more as a hobby than a company.

Originally Posted by Kees

They are quarried here:

The Water of Ayr & Tam OShanter Hone Works Ltd, Manufacture of other non-metall

I have sent them a letter once: no reply. Coully had the same problem so he stopped selling them. The owner is an elderly man who runs the thing more as a hobby than a company.

Do you know definitely that the darker hone that we refer to as the WOA came from the same quarry as the TOS hones? I know that the company/ family who operated the honeworks also retailed products from other quarries. The TOS being sold with the finer stone from the Meikledale Quarry as combo stones, and the Dalmore Blue stone coming from the Craiksland Quarry but being processed and sold by the The Water of Ayr and Tam O Shanter Honeworks Ltd. I'm still uncertain as to whether or not the charcoal grey/ black stone that we call the WOA is distinct from the Meikledale stone.

Like you, and many others, I have tried contacting the quarry, by phone and by letter, but I have never gotten a reply from them.

Regards,
Alex

Originally Posted by A_S

Like you, and many others, I have tried contacting the quarry, by phone and by letter, but I have never gotten a reply from them.

Regards,
Alex

Same here, unfortunately. I thought, oh well, the stones are used by intaglio printers and others, as well as jewellers, so I tried a number of these sites in the UK who had these stones listed in their inventories. Every one of them had given up on the mine owner - no replies to mail or phone despite the answerphone being on and no stock replenishment. What a shame.

The most annoying/enticing/bewildering part of all the time I wasted in this pursuit was actually getting to talk to someone at the mine (eventually!) - who didn't sound that elderly, BTW. He went to elaborate lengths (perhaps he likes playing the 'charades' game?) to make a note of all the things I required saying he couldn't give me a price at that exact moment but that he would get back to me.

I'm still waiting....

Originally Posted by A_S

Do you know definitely that the darker hone that we refer to as the WOA came from the same quarry as the TOS hones? I know that the company/ family who operated the honeworks also retailed products from other quarries. The TOS being sold with the finer stone from the Meikledale Quarry as combo stones, and the Dalmore Blue stone coming from the Craiksland Quarry but being processed and sold by the The Water of Ayr and Tam O Shanter Honeworks Ltd. I'm still uncertain as to whether or not the charcoal grey/ black stone that we call the WOA is distinct from the Meikledale stone.

Like you, and many others, I have tried contacting the quarry, by phone and by letter, but I have never gotten a reply from them.

Regards,
Alex

I am afraid all I wrote about this item is hearsay, either from SRP or B&B.

I have friends living about 25 miles down the road from the quarry. One day we'll go and visit them and I'll try to get there. I once saw a picture of their shed chockerblock with hones, a link has been posted once on SRP.

I think I've finally figured this one out. Based on an announcement taken out by one of the mine owners in the past it would seem that the stones were sold under the company name, which back then was just the Water of Ayr Stone Quarry & Honeworks, so all stones quarried by this compnay would have been Water of Ayr. Later on, the company started to use the monicker Tam O Shanter, which is what we know them as today. Therefore, I would think that all hones coming from the Dalmore Quarry would be the Tam O Shanter, and that the Water of Ayr would probably be the stone coming from Meikledale; also, we know that the company did retail hones coming from other quarries like the Dalmore Blue, so it wouldn't be a huge leap in logic to assume that the WOA came from another location as well. In Ayrshire Honestones Tucker does refer to the Meikledale stone as blue Water of Ayr, so I would think that the variation in the colouring would be within the usual parameters for a natural products.

IMPORTANT CHANGE OF NAME.
The name of the celebrated qualities of Hone Stone produced from the “Water of Ayr Stone Quarry and Hone Works,” and esteemed and known in the market as “Water of Ayr Stone,” “Snake Stone,” and “Scotch Hone,” and exclusively supplied by me and my predecessors for about 100 years past, is now changed to the distinctive name “TAM O’SHANTER” Hone or Stone, and some of the grades of quality suited for special purposes will be known as “DALMORE HONE,” “MONTGOMERIESTONE HONE,” and “SOUTAR JOHNNY HONE.” Every Stone will bear a Label or Stamp with one or other of these names, and the public are earnestly requested to ask for it accordingly, as only the very inferior sorts and those hitherto rejected at the Quarry will now be sent out by me as “Water of Ayr Stone” or “Snake Stone.”
JOHN C. MONTGOMERIE, “The Tam O’Shanter” Hone Works, Dalmore, Tarblton Station, R.S.O. Ayrshire

Regards,
Alex

I have read that in the Tucker pamphlet as well and at first came to the same conclusion. Then I saw this photo of a WOA labeled. So although it appears that the Tam 'O Shanter was A.K.A. water of Ayr at various times there was a distinct WOA stone that was not a Tam.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I have read that in the Tucker pamphlet as well and at first came to the same conclusion. Then I saw this photo of a WOA labeled. So although it appears that the Tam 'O Shanter was A.K.A. water of Ayr at various times there was a distinct WOA stone that was not a Tam.

Hi Jimmy,

I've come to the conclusion that the non-speckled stone we know as the Water of Ayr is the stone coming from Meikledale. My initial confusion arose from the fact that I wasn't sure if the stone mentioned as the blue Water of Ayr by Tucker which came from Meikledale was distinct from the WOA sold by The Water of Ayr & Tam O Shanter Honeworks Ltd. So yes there is a distinction between the two types, but the finer stone we know as the WOA is probably only processed and sold by the Dalmore Mine and actually comes from Meikledale.

Kindest regards,
Alex