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  1. #1
    Senior Member Pyment's Avatar
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    Default Improving the lower end

    I have reached the point where I am pretty happy with the finer hones I have available to me (coticule, nakayama, Olivia hone, Butterscotch hone). I have decided I don't really enjoy honing on the DMT's (I am using the extra fine and the XX fine) and want to replace the lower end of my progression. I will keep my DMT coarse for lapping, but I really want to get some smoother (feeling) stones for setting bevels and sharpening.

    I have looked at the Naniwa Super stones. I really think I could make the jump from the 5K to either my coticule or the Nakayama (mine is pretty fast). I was considering getting the 1K, 3K and the 5K.

    I also consider getting the 1K and the 3K/8K combo.

    I have the feeling that the first progression might just give me the better edge. Comments made here have given me the impression that using a progression at the lower end with smaller jumps may give the better edge once polishing is done.

    Am I wrong about this?

  2. #2
    Life is short, filled with Stuff joke1176's Avatar
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    I am in the same situation as you, with those DMT's .

    It sure would be nice to have a bevel setter that feels as nice as a natural stone, and still get's the job done.

    I hear the Shapton's are nice, but need to be lapped pretty often.

    The Naniwa's are nice from what I have seen, and I get the impression they don't need to be lapped as often.

    The Norton's are tried and true, but I have no experience with any of those, other than the 8k I currently use as a dust-collector.


    It seems to me adding more stones in the lower grits could save a little time on the approx 8000 grit-range stones as you move up in progression, but not too much in the long run.

  3. #3
    I used Nakayamas for my house mainaman's Avatar
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    The 1k Super Stone, dishes pretty handily, the Chosera dishes slower however.
    Stefan

  4. #4
    Electric Razor Aficionado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyment View Post
    Am I wrong about this?
    Yes I believe this hypothesis is wrong, or at least misstated. If the bevel is set correctly at the lower levels, and polished properly at the higher levels, then the only thing that matters is the final stone or paste - all the work done by the lower grits is now swarf down the sink and can't affect the edge. However, a closer progression makes things go faster because it takes fewer laps on the next stone to get the appropriate amount of work out of it. Since the number of laps between steps in the progression is nonlinear with the step size this is frequently faster (e.g. going from 1k to 8k may take 50 or so laps, but going from 1k to 2k may take 8 laps, ant 2k to 4k another 8 laps, and 4k to 8k another 8 laps). The step size that is optimal depends on the hone type as well however. I've heard that because the naniwas are so fast you can use larger steps than with some other hones. And hones that use a slurry can tolerate a much larger step size as well because they're variable-speed and variable-fineness.

  5. #5
    Senior Member blabbermouth hi_bud_gl's Avatar
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    i have to be agree everything been said before me except.I think OP is right setting the bevel with same type stone and continuing is better option then switching among stones.let me explain .i think there is enough differences among 1k norton and 1k naniwa.generally to say it does matter what you use until final touch stone.if your 8k is norton you may need to d30laps on nakayama .if your 8k is naniwa you will need to make10 laps on nakayama.this is just example.hope i was clear.
    Last edited by hi_bud_gl; 10-14-2009 at 01:58 PM.

  6. #6
      Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    The 1k Super Stone, dishes pretty handily, the Chosera dishes slower however.
    I'm at a loss here. I use one of these almost daily and have had no problem with dishing. I lap all my stones after each use and really have had no problem with dishing at all except when I use nagura stones to create slurry on natural stones.

    Lynn

  7. #7
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I'm at a loss here. I use one of these almost daily and have had no problem with dishing. I lap all my stones after each use and really have had no problem with dishing at all except when I use nagura stones to create slurry on natural stones.

    Lynn
    +1 I have no problem with dishing on the Naniwa superstones or the shapton pros ..... or the Norton either. I like any of the above for bevel setting though I am currently using the Naniwa 1k super all of the time.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

  8. #8
    I used Nakayamas for my house mainaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I'm at a loss here. I use one of these almost daily and have had no problem with dishing. I lap all my stones after each use and really have had no problem with dishing at all except when I use nagura stones to create slurry on natural stones.

    Lynn
    I'll admit I used my 1k SS for sharpening knives which is not the same as razors.My bigger problem was that the stone would glaze too much for my liking and I had to lap it several times during sharpening session to refresh the surface.
    After I used it I got 1k King , which imo works better than the 1k SS, but still was not fast enough. I finally got 1k Chosera which I like the best of the three. The Chosera is made from the same abrasive as the Super Stone but scintered instead of resin bound, and more concentrated.
    Stefan

  9. #9
    Hones/Honing/Master Barber avatar1999's Avatar
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    I can see I'm gonna have to bite the bullet, and pick up a low grit natural stone to check out.

    Been thinking about it for a while, but I think it's about time to test it out. I just like naturals so much better than synthetics...*sigh*

  10. #10
      Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    I'll admit I used my 1k SS for sharpening knives which is not the same as razors.My bigger problem was that the stone would glaze too much for my liking and I had to lap it several times during sharpening session to refresh the surface.
    After I used it I got 1k King , which imo works better than the 1k SS, but still was not fast enough. I finally got 1k Chosera which I like the best of the three. The Chosera is made from the same abrasive as the Super Stone but scintered instead of resin bound, and more concentrated.
    I'm sorry dude, but you are really not making any kind of sense to me other than you want to say that you like the 1K Chosera Stone better which is absolutely fine. Your dishing statement, particularly with using the stone on knives has still got me lost. 1K King, whatever. I would agree that the 1K Chosera is a nice stone and to me just harder feeling than the Super and a good perfomer.

    Lynn

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