Can I use DMT 1200 grit for bevel setting, and also lapping Norton 4k/8k, Naniwa 12K?

I'm looking to buy a diamond plate for lapping my norton 4k/8k, and my Naniwa 12K. I wanted to see if I could also use the same plate to use as a bevel setter on very dull razors. People mention on here that the DMT diamond plates are good for lapping these hones. I think most people use a lower grit plate though, something like the 325 or the 600 grit plates.

Can I use a the 1200 grit diamond plate to lap the norton and the naniwa, and also use it to set bevels on ebay type razors? I figured buying the 325 or 600 would be too low of a grit to use as a bevel setter.

Assuming that I could use this plate for all of these purposes, would it make a difference if I got the 10 inch by 4 inch plate, instead of the 8" by 3"?

I didnt know if having an oversized plate when lapping, and bevel setting would introduce unwanted variables, such as uneven wear on the diamond plate or something.

Although they're great for bevel setting, you'll shred it by lapping with it. I can sell you mine that i used for that purpose. It's useless now, but at least it'll cut one of the stages out for you! :D

DMT says you should only lap with... I forget which one, but I think the XXC or maybe the XC. Personally, I lap with a coarse and it's only lost a few diamonds (on the edge, from lapping a really dished hone), but I've seen other DMT C's that have been stripped of their diamonds from lapping. I also use mine to do pre-bevel setting work on razors that need a lot of work.

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Originally Posted by ben.mid

Although they're great for bevel setting, you'll shred it by lapping with it. I can sell you mine that i used for that purpose. It's useless now, but at least it'll cut one of the stages out for you! :D

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I do not understand. I will ruin the DMT plate by lapping with it, or I will ruin the Norton/Naniwa by lapping with it? Also, what to you mean by cutting out one of the stages?

Sorry for my confusion...

You'd ruin the DMT. The diamonds and/or compound can be stripped off of the metal plate. I'm guessing he means he'll save you the trouble of buying and ruining a DMT by sending you his that he ruined in that way.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

You'd ruin the DMT. The diamonds and/or compound can be stripped off of the metal plate. I'm guessing he means he'll save you the trouble of buying and ruining a DMT by sending you his that he ruined in that way.

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So what is the best solution? Having a separate tools for bevel setting and stone lapping? Also should I stay away from a diamond plate if i just wanted it to lap a norton 4k/8k and the naniwa 12k? or would it be alright in this case to the the DMT 325 grit? Or something else that you can recommend?

Thanks

I use the DMTC, which is the 325 grit DMT, to lap, but DMT says it should not be used for this purpose. If you really want to be safe, you should get something intended for lapping (someone else can tell you or you could do a search - I don't know) or you can use wet/dry sandpaper on grantie or glass (to esure it's flat). You don't have to stay away from a diamond plate, just be sure you get the right one and use as directed (there is a lapping 101 page in the wiki).

In general, lapping and bevel setting are two very different tasks, so it should not be surprising that they require two different tools.

I use the 'c' for lapping too. It works great, but you shouldn't lap anything less than AK zith it. If the hones you lap are as coarse as your lapping plate, you'll end up ruining the plate.For natural hones, the 1200 would be usable, but I use my 'C' for that too.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

IFor natural hones, the 1200 would be usable, but I use my 'C' for that too.

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I've only lapped BBW's Coti's & Thuringians with mine. I guess the garnets really went to work!

I did mean it as Holli translated it. The stage i thought i'd save you was destroying the DMT.

I use wet & dry on granite now. I'm not sure how Norton's & Naniwa's respond to this method though, as mine are pretty much all naturals.

I use the XC for lapping and removing large chips/correcting spine problems. I'd have gotten an XXC if it had been the same price, but XC was cheaper when I bought. It works fine. When lapping I make sure to clear the grit every few seconds as the slurry is what I understand creates the threat of damage to the lower grit plates (Using higher grit ones is just a bad idea period from what I've heard).

I DID use the Fine (600grit) on three stones before I bought the XC. But I only used it under fast running water and anytime the stone sealed to the plate I ran it off the side and washed both surfaces thoroughly to avoid the "vacuum" occuring. It's NOT worth the trouble. If you want to lap just buy an XXC, XC or C. I'd recommend the XXC unless it would cost much more. NONE of them are any good for razors OTHER than removing large amounts of metal, and ANY can go straight to a 600grit (Fine) and likely even a 1200 (VF) just fine. There are times when I wish I had the XXC over even my XC when I'm chewing away at razors.

If you only need to lap stones once (Say if you just bought a finisher to maintain a few razors and aren't restoring a large amount of razors), tile/glass and paper/paste is probably the best option. However some stones are pretty damn hard. I'd guess if I'd done both my swaty's on paper I'd have used at least $30 in paper just for those two stones. By now I figure my DMT has saved me money.

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Originally Posted by IanS

If you only need to lap stones once (Say if you just bought a finisher to maintain a few razors and aren't restoring a large amount of razors), tile/glass and paper/paste is probably the best option. However some stones are pretty damn hard. I'd guess if I'd done both my swaty's on paper I'd have used at least $30 in paper just for those two stones. By now I figure my DMT has saved me money.

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Yea, I basically have a norton 4k/8k, and a Naniwa 12k that I would like to do an initial lapping on, and from there on out, just do touch up lapping. I really do infrequent honing. I only have a few razors that I like to hone. I am just trying to stay away from sandpaper, I would like something that I can grab and use quickly, and that wont risk putting sand particles in my stones. I am trying to find the best solution.

Are the norton and naniwa safe for the DMT stones that are either XXC, XC, or C? meaning is there a risk with even those stones, of stripping the diamonds off the plate, and ruining the DMT? This is assuming I only use the DMT plate with the norton 4k/8k, and naniwa 12k, and nothing else (no barber hones)

If you check the DMT website (DMT DiaSharp Diamond Sharpening Stones), they list "flattening whetstones" as a use for the XXC. I am pretty sure this is the only one they officially suggest you use to lap with. For what you are saying, the C, XC, or XXC should work if you lap under running water and with minimal pressure, but there are no guarantees. When you lap, as when you do anything, you do risk your gear, even if that risk is marginal.

Holli's spot on. I use the XC with no problems, but it's a calculated risk and I certainly wouldn't try to get warranty service if it did lose diamonds.

DMT recommends using the XX, X, or C for waterstone flattening. They say the C is "Also great for waterstone flattening." in this pdf and in the enclosures when you purchase one of the D6 series of hones.

I haven't had any problems using the D8C on anything yet, including the very hard white Spydercos. Just use lots of water.

EDIT: Using a DMT E 1200 for lapping isn't generally done, since slurry can cut the nickel holding the diamonds in place. It can, on occasion, be done as a finishing step following the 325; but it is still rather risky.

Wow thanks sticky. My XC is still under warranty then, nice to have that piece of mind.

Dustin
I have used Atoma diamond plates for 3 years now with excellent results, the 600 is the middle of the road and they cut quickly with very little vacuum because of their open matrix. PM me if you want more info. Alx

I've never used anything finer than the C for lapping--leaves a super-smooth edge on every stone I've lapped with it. Not really sure why you'd want to go finer or even if you'd really notice a difference. My E is for bevel-setting only.

OT, but how long does the initial lapping (thinking the 4k side especially here) of a norton 4/8 combo take on a C only? I'm thinking of picking one up as my diamond film is now dead. In Pace Requiescat!:)

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Originally Posted by PA23-250

I've never used anything finer than the C for lapping--leaves a super-smooth edge on every stone I've lapped with it. Not really sure why you'd want to go finer or even if you'd really notice a difference. My E is for bevel-setting only.

OT, but how long does the initial lapping (thinking the 4k side especially here) of a norton 4/8 combo take on a C only? I'm thinking of picking one up as my diamond film is now dead. In Pace Requiescat!:)

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On some hones, I see scratches from my DMTC (most notably Swaty's and C12k). I have been told that these scratches don't affect honing, but I lapped them off anyway.

I don't know about on Norton 4k's, but on hones I have (natural and synthetic), initial lapping seems to depend on luck - you may get one that is very close to flat or you may not. Regardless, I think that the benefits of having a Norton 4/8k will outweigh whatever the initial lapping time is.

Forgot to qualify that: except for barber hones! :)

Yeah, I'm definitely picking one up soon--the Dilucot method is fun for sure, but sometimes I just want to get a razor done quick & know that it's ready to go.

I was thinking more of what a lot of Norton users have reported--having to lap close to 1/8" off the 4k side to get it smooth enough for honing.