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http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...mons/stone.jpg
Well, the last "mystery stone" I bought on eBay got refunded (seller had lost it)... so I felt the need to buy another. Here's the pics, any guesses as to its type? You've got a week or so before it should get here thanks to the holiday, so have at it.
The auction didn't list stone dimensions but the box is 9.8"x3" so I'd estimate the stone is right around 8.5"x1.5".
Once you clean it up I think you will find an Arkansas whet stone A Ouachita most likely and those things are harder than a witches teat. I gave up on mine but it is a nice looking stone nevertheless.
So, you're thinking "hard" arkansas type? That'd be fun to play with.
yes, think Mark is right on the translucent arkansas
Mmm....Arkansas...mmm....
Well, i'm guessing what the others have guessed. Possibly a translucent...maybe a brown translucent. Ive a couple of those.
Not quite the ultimate finishers, but definately fun.
Ive used translucents as finishers, then stropped on 1 micron diamond paste, then 0.5 CrOx and finally on to the leather, for a decent shave.
Mac
Cool, translucent would be nice if only to have a decent <2" wide hone at a reasonably high grit.
Can't wait till it gets here.
This is my form of gambling. ;)
Welcome to HAD.
This should be one of the sign.
Person buys stone although has no idea what is he buying.
:roflmao Sham you're priceless! :roflmao
Heavens, I understand! Nothing like the thrill of an unknown rock in the mail!
....mercy me, I must be a stoner!
:rofl2:
Have fun with that rock, Ian!
Just found note in my post box that a stone I am expecting from ebay is in my post office that is the good part of HAD. The bad one is they are already closed for X-mass and open on Tuesday. Do you think it would be a criminal offence to pick my stone earlier even thought they are closed?
A true 'jury of your peers' would all be Haddicts and in that case no jury would convict you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by adrspach
Ok now where is the balaclava and dynamite.
I was unfamiliar with the term balaclava, so prior to looking it up, I pictured someone breaking into a post office with dynamite and a turkish phyllo dough desert.
No, Hi_bud, the real sign of HAD is that I'm thinking about how much fun it would be to do this regularly. ;)
IanSQuote:
Originally Posted by IanS
We have early POST about HAD signs. if you find that post it will be a lot clear to you.
You are welcome to add to that post any sign you think is belong to HAD .GL
i SHOULD say you are in early sign of HAD don't expect it will get easier yet. There is steps and they are taking years to clime. The day will Come you will pay for useless rock 50.00 and sit back and say what the ... i am doing this.
have fun this is all good
I think I've seen that thread before, but I'm having no luck with search digging it up now... so I'm safe. If I don't know the symptoms of HAD, I can't get it, right?
Anywho... it arrived.
It's 8.25"x2"
It is somewhere around my swaty three line. Definitely finer than my bear 4k (JIS). I'd guess 10-14k Slurry from spots cleaned of oil is milky white. It's definitely not translucent (trick of the light?). It's a soft yellow, theres still a bit of oil residue, once that's gone I expect it will be off-white (hint of yellow). It makes slurry quite fast (not very hard, much harder than my bear but quite a bit softer than my swaty) and cuts at about the same rate as my bear, maybe a touch faster.
I really don't have any kind of guess as to just what it is, the pattern looks almost sandstoneish, but I don't know stones too well, for all I know it could be some kind of old ultrafine synthetic(joke: it's got an inclusion so I know it's some kind of natural). It's glued into the base, so cant check out the other side. Scrubbing some oil off may get me closer to ID. I managed to borrow a camera and snag a couple pics.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...e/IM001546.JPG
http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...e/IM001545.JPG
looks rectangular to me, LOL
Ian could you please place it between a couple of other hones and take a crisp picture with daylight?
It looks like an oxidized "La Grosse Blanche" Coticule.
I'm far from sure. I don't know a lot about any other natural hones than Coticules.
Please compare to this picture:
(a heavily oxidized "La Grosse Blanche")
http://www.coticule.be/tl_files/Coti...oticule036.jpg
The oxidation can be rubbed away with a slurry stone, after doing that, the hone should look like this one:
http://www.coticule.be/tl_files/Coti...oticule015.jpg
I'm mentioning this as a possibility.
Best regards,
Bart.
I'll get a picture with friends outside tomorrow. I'm fresh out of daylight today. The color is about right for that heavily oxidized coti you pictured, but it's behavior with slurry isn't how I understand a coti should be (slurry doesn't seem to make it as coarse as the various coticule sites suggest a slurried coticule should be). Also, it was pitch black with oil residue when it arrived... would a coticule ever see use with oil?
If there's anything else I can do to help you guys out on the ID, let me know and I'll give it a shot.
Ok, I took a razor I'd finished on my swaty down there. Made a nice batch of slurry with my DMT. It's pure white, milky and basically looks like chalk in water. In the right light just the faintest hint of lavender. Under 100x there's nothing but white goo. At 400x there are tiny white particles the size of a sharpened pencil tip. It dries fast, and again is JUST like if you dissolved chalk and let it dry... leaves that white chalky crust. (This is how the slurry off my Karasu behaves also... however, the Karasu slurry doesn't change color during use nearly as much as this stuff... it starts light gray and finishes slightly darker light gray).
So I worked my razor with a lot of slurry. The slurry turns deep lavender and gray as you work it. After several passes, I call my mother over and ask her what colors she see's on the stone (dominant colors). Purple, Lavender and tan was her verdict. I saw gray and green/yellow as well, but she didn't mention those. Slurry was definitely gray/lavender (I'd call it gray with hints of lavender, she called it lavender).
I look at the razor at 100x.
No scratch pattern. Just haze. I use a led flashlight to illuminate, and I tried every angle that thing could get. Haze from every angle.
I'd say it's not quite as fine a finish as my Nakayama Karasu but it's damned close. With heavy slurry this stone is much finer than my swaty. Much, much finer. It acts a lot like the Karasu too. The slurry changes with use. The only real differences are that this stone is Way, way, WAY softer than my Karasu, and cuts much faster. I'd think it was a Japanese stone if the circumstances of my getting it didn't give absolutely no indication of that. It came in a box (I can't ID woods) that screams old timey american to me. It was drenched in oil residue. And it came from a fellow named Howard in MO.
Still sounds like that Coticule to me.
The speed you report, reasonably fast discoloring of slurry while honing on it. Scratch pattern looking hazy (as it it was micro-sandblasted?). It all sounds very familiar. Softer stones are quite common among Coticules.
They sometimes were used with oil. Not sure about the Lavender scent.
Does the surface looks lighter now that you rubbed slurry off it?
Best regards,
Bart.
It actually seems to darken a little with use.
Also, lavender was refering to the color, not scent.
Yeah, microsandblasted is a good way to describe the edge it puts. The white on the edges in pictures is slurry that slid off without getting used and dried.
Do you still think it's a coticule? I was under the impression that coticule slurry made the stone cut quite roughly, in the 2k range?
The last pic is a good representation of the stone in person (when dry). Yellowish with tan and dark grey hairs crackles and speckles all over the surface.
http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...e/IM001554.JPG
http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...s/IM001555.JPG
http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...s/IM001556.JPG
http://www.personal.psu.edu/its5014/...s/IM001558.JPG
It looks identical to my Arkansas the edge from my arkansas sounds like what you describe also but as I said, mine is as hard as a witches teat which seems to be the major difference here
Yeah, everything about the behavior and feel says not arkansas. Everything about the look and how it arrived says arkansas (I can't compare edge, as I've never used a finishing arkansas before (nothing beyond ~US 700 grit) I've also never used an arkansas without oil before).
I can quite easily scratch the surface with my fingernail.
A thought occurs... awhile back, as an early form of synthetic, they did grind up hard arkansas and suspend it in some kind of medium... it may be possible that for whatever reason, impurities from the original stone would bind together in the suspension while setting/firing and create the appearance of natural inclusions. That would explain it's appearance and softness... but it's really nothing more than a shot in the dark.
I'm going to attempt a slurry with a finer DMT plate today and start on another razor from butterknifed, see if I can garner any more knowledge.
Sorry i have to say. check the stone in picture's and let me know are they different? 2 dark spots on this stone using oils and i haven't lap it flat .
This is oil stone and if you try make slurry it will be milky color.
it is pretty fast cutter and when you use with oil it will get dark pretty quick
.Stone mean to use with oil without slurry.
Approximately 4k level.
hope this helps. GL
Last pictures is showing i have broke it and took out of the box.
I am sure we have discuss this stone early. Someone else has too.
Yeah, that stone looks very similar. It appears mine has more dark mottling and less of the lighter yellow, but pattern and colors themselves are almost the same. I'd buy that they're the same type of rock. Is there any ID on that stone?
This stone is way, way finer than 4k though. Using with water it's finer than my 4k king (8k) and comparable to my swaty (10+k) With slurry it's extremely fine. Have you tried cleaning the oil off that stone and using it with slurry? I don't know much about this stone, but I can say that using it with plain water = very high grit scratch pattern, using it with slurry = no scratch pattern.
if it's a coticule you'll see the garnets, that's very simple to rule out.
looks similar to one i saw at joed and carriem's, i think the consensus on theirs was arkansas.
Now those are better.
This one looked quite like yours before I lapped it, Ian.
It also came in such a wooden box.
http://www.olivia-seife.de/Messer-Da...terybright.jpg
http://www.olivia-seife.de/Messer-Da...t_makro_01.jpg
The previous owner sold it to me as an Arkansas, but we're still not sure whether its actually a natural or a vintage synthetic hone.
Definitely no garnets at 100x. I didn't see any at 400x, but I wasn't able to get good focus. I don't think it's coti.
It's looking like an arky. I'm doing a test to rule out one other possibility that was brought to my attention. I'll let you know the results.
Whatever it is, it's a nice finisher.
The reason the slurry looks like chalk, is that it is chalk.
It appears this is a turkish oilstone. They are apparently novaculite from Smyrna with a heavy amount of lime and chalk impurities. The small amount of info I'm finding suggests that they maintain this "drab" coloring due to these impurities where american novaculite goes translucent at the high end of grits. (It also explains the softness.)
I tested this using an old high school chem trick to check a stone for CaO^3 and it is loaded with it.
Not a definite ID, but so far I think it's the best guess I can make.
Congrats to great stone. I do not know real values of Old turkeys but I hope that one day I will have one in my collection. You just have wetted my appetite for it even more. Thank you for sharing with us.
To me it looks like an Arkansas:
Attachment 35469
or an early artificial India hone:
Attachment 35470
Vintage Turkey hones look like this:
Attachment 35461
Attachment 35462
Attachment 35463
Attachment 35464
Attachment 35465
Attachment 35466
Attachment 35467
Attachment 35468
Your better pictures and the additional data proofs that I was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
Best regards,
Bart.
Don't feel bad Bart .Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
I bought this for coticule price.
Ends up piece of BALSA darn.
LOVELY SIGN OF the HAD.
I bought a very similar stone from eBay at a low price. It was deeply dished and had a light gray patina, and I thought I was "stealing" an old boxed Escher. Not even close.
When it arrived, it reeked of oil and filth, and required an hour of lapping with a perforated DMT X-Coarse plate to get flat. Mine is very hard, and very rough, not fine at all. I would estimate well under 1200 grit. I've never taken a razor to it, I just wrote it off as a learning experience. I assumed it was some sort of man-made oil stone. No idea what it is, but I see variations of them all the time on eBay, and steer well clear of them.
Maybe this is completely different than what you have. Or maybe somebody will know what these are. I wish I had the original unlapped pictures of it, looked like a completely different hone.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../Mystery01.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../Mystery02.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../Mystery03.jpg
Tim, the break in the bottom pic looks very much like a synthetic to me.
Ok, here's what I've confirmed chemically.
It has a lot of CaCo3. It has very little Alumina (not enough to be an India stone).
Visually:
No garnets.
The surface oxidizes slightly.
If anyone can find me the chemical makeup of arkansas stone (other than silica), it would be very helpful.
All reports I'm finding say that this is far too soft to be arkansas. If anyone has any advice for removing the oil better, perhaps the sides and bottom (I've managed to pry it from it's box) could help uncover something.
edit: Now lapped on all sides... the "top" side was sanded down to get rid of all the surface blackness... other sides I did not bother, they appear like a much darker version of the top side's pattern (absorbed oil residue I'd assume). The residue (if that's what it is) has no impact on performance.
It looks like the yellow Arkansas several people have posted. So much that I'd say that's almost certainly what it is, and I'm just gonna say "Weird but who cares" for the anomalies that disagree. Primarily that it can be scratched with knife steel (Arkansas usually can't) and that it is easily 12k grit (with slurry). I'm just going to consider it the best damn Arkansas ever, since really I have no clue what else it could be at this point. (Actually, I'm going to buy another arkansas and just see if they are vastly under-rated as razor hones, and if not, THEN I'm gonna call it the best damn Arkansas ever).
Thanks every one for all your help. If you come across anything new or have any better idea than what I'm going with now, feel free to post it. I'm a bit OCD about this stuff, so I'd sure be pleased to have a more definite answer.
I did dig around and find stone i think matches what you have. i have not done any test on this and not lapped flat yet. very hard stone. this is the pic's.
That could be my stones twin (though it looks a couple inches longer*). I'm very interested in your findings.
Yours has a prettier home though.
edit: Check the bottom... after I spent a half hour lapping my HIGHLY dished top... I eventually pried the stone free and lapped the bottom... in about two minutes. :P
Was yours used with oil in the past? Are the dark patches oil residue or some kind of coloring?
Also... how many stones do you have that you can dig around and produce a random mystery stone, eh?
*It's not the size, it's how you use it!
I don't know if i could take it out. i will try lets see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanS
it has been used with oil. i wasn't able to lap it to flat that dark spot's are the dished parts.
How many stones HAD PEOPLE has? hmmm
Ask Jimmy he has his kitchen full. We should have pictures of them in srp somewhere.
Mine was glued down, but the glue was old and brittle (and applied sparingly).
