This Arkansas or a coticule

Hi, I am a this point that I have to start honing to preserve a decent shave.
This way of shaving is not very big in the netherlands and so is the availibility.
(I like seeing and feeling better than internetbuying, although I do quite a bit of it ;)
One of a few (i think there are two) barbershops in holland gracefully invited me to come over and learn honing from him. He uses an Arkansas oil stone with a bit of oil. (I put the picture below, so you can see which one it is, i hope i get it right :gaah::gaah:). He has great results from it. But one reads a lot about the omnipotent coticule, which is quite more expensive.
What is wisdom? Getting the arkansas or splash out on a decent size coticule at about three times the price?
You can see the stone at:
http://www.winkelplein.nu/barbershop...Mt5d16nRcqo7Bk

I vote for the coticule. Check out Bart's website here to get some good instruction on how to use it.

Looks like a translucent Arkansas stone to me.

I don't know much about them, but I heard they work well.

I would still go with a coticule, and the reason why, is that it's like buying a couple hones in one.

Just need a touch-up? Splash it with water and get to work.

Got some microchips, or edge has gotten pretty dull? Slurry it up and start honing.

Then if you have a combo stone, you also get the BBW as well, which, I have found out recently, puts a nice edge on kitchen knives, as well as helps regain keenness after using the coticule with slurry.

Yeah, the coticule costs more, and obviously it's a personal choice, but I think the quality and functionality you can get out of it is worth it.

Like I said, I've never used a translucent Arkie for touch-ups, but I hope to hear what the guys that have can say about it :)

thanks Rob,

I read that the yellow coticule is put on a bit of slate for strength.
I thought you couldn't use it as a combination-stone.
I will have a look at Bart's information.

I would say coticule will be a lot easier to learn and get results then arkansas.
Arkansas is only for final touch stone.
Coticule you can do a lot more.
hope this helps

Agreed. It is the Translucent. A common misconception is that the Translucent Arkie is the finest, it is not. The Surgical Black is. I have the entire Arkansas line. They are great for knives, but not for razors IMHO. You have so many better choices out there for razors. I'd use a Chinese 12k before I'd use an Arkanasas on my razor....but that's me.
The newer Arkansas stones are nothing like their vintage cousins. I'm the first one to say there's no difference in Vintage vs New, especially in Coticules. I've always felt it depends on the stone itself. This is just my opinion, and I know there are a lot of guys with Vintage Coticules that are great. My contention is, that's why they are still around...Arkansas may be the exception to my rule. All the Arkansas stones I just bought are not impressive at all to me...that's just my opinion. I'm sure some guys love them...I would buy a Coticule hands down over the Arkansas. You'll have a much more versatile stone and a better edge on your razor for sure....

Also, you mentioned about Coticules not being a combo stone, Some are, some aren't. Most Coticule are backed by slate.
There are natural combo Coticules that are backed by Belgian Blue Whetstone, a 4k grit cutter. I've seen some glued together, but the real rare one's, and expensive are the "Natural Combos" Here's a pic of 6x2 natural combo. You can see how the blue and yellow just seem to blend together, rather than have a fine line.....

I bought a translucent Arkansas at a great discount (about $20, I think) right when I got my first straight razor. I like playing with it sometimes NOW, but back then it caused me nuttin' but grief.

Having never even seen one, I'd recommend you get a coticule instead.
Or anything else. :D

The coticule is a great stone. You can either use it in combination with other stones as a finisher by using just water on the hone (they are known for leaving a very smooth comfortable edge), or you can work up a slurry and use it for all stages of honing (this takes a bit of time to learn how to do, Bart has posted some threads on how to do it).

You'll find coticules in two configurations. One has a slate backing (for strength, not to use as another hone), the other is a "natural combo" which has a yellow coticule on one side, and a belgian blue on the other. These combo stones cost more, but have a lot of character, and you can use the belgian blue side to hone as well.

If you want to learn more about these hones, you can also go to Bart's coticule site: www.coticule.be.

-Chief

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toon

thanks Rob,

I read that the yellow coticule is put on a bit of slate for strength.
I thought you couldn't use it as a combination-stone.
I will have a look at Bart's information.

---

If you buy JUST a Coticule, then yes, it is fixed to a slate back and should not be used to hone.

A combination is, in a most cases a natural occurance where the coticule layer is right next to the layer of BBW, which can also be used for honing.

The Coticules are great, I have three of them, but there are more alternatives. Probably the cheapest is the Rozsutec which may require 2-3x more strokes than a Coticule but it's only 10 euro.

Personally I would first get a Guangxi if you're touching up shave-ready razors. It's cheap and slow but it will give you a really sharp edge. If your razor is too dull for a Guangxi you can get a 10k stone like a Coticule and use the Guangxi afterwards.

If you choose to get a Coticule then I'd recommand getting them from the source http://nl.ardennes-coticule.com, they have standard and selected grade Coticules.

Thanks for all the advise. It seems to be a real helpfull crowd here.
I believe the coticule is the way to go.
Maybe in the future a finer stone will be a good addition.

Does anyone know the best place to get good coticules?
Mayby Bart at coticule.com or straight from coticule-ardennes.com?

Or maybe somewhere else???

Any advise is welcome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toon

Thanks for all the advise. It seems to be a real helpfull crowd here.
I believe the coticule is the way to go.
Maybe in the future a finer stone will be a good addition.

Does anyone know the best place to get good coticules?
Mayby Bart at coticule.com or straight from coticule-ardennes.com?

Or maybe somewhere else???

Any advise is welcome.

---

Bart doesn't sell them. Just go to Ardennes site and email them and let them know what you're looking for and they can pick one out for you I'm sure :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toon

Thanks for all the advise. It seems to be a real helpfull crowd here.
I believe the coticule is the way to go.
Maybe in the future a finer stone will be a good addition.

Does anyone know the best place to get good coticules?
Mayby Bart at coticule.com or straight from coticule-ardennes.com?

Or maybe somewhere else???

Any advise is welcome.

---

Bart doesn't sell coticules although he does review some of the stones that Rob at Ardennes here sells. Being in the Netherlands I'm not sure whether there are vendors closer to you than Ardennes but if you send Rob an email and tell him you want a coticule for honing razors he can hand pick one for you. If you can afford to get a natural Belgian blue and yellow coticule go for that for more versitility. I would say a 6"or an 8" by 2" is ideal.

Hi Toon, nice to see another Dutchman aboard!

Translucent Arkansas and Coticules are very different types of hones and I agree with most of the above. To add another option: if you have (a) shave-ready razor(s) and it's just that stropping doesn't yield the preferred sharpness any more, have you considered a barbers' hone? They are easy to use, give excellent edges, and can be had for little. Provided the edge does not get damaged, one could keep a razor sharp indefinitely with a strop and a barber hone.

Whatever you decide, my advice would be to accept the invitation and visit Paul Kox in Breukelen. Though he has -ahem- interesting habits (eg he cuts paper to test razor sharpness), he's a nice and knowledgeable man. He does straight shaving workshops for hairdressers' colleges. His brother, father, grandfather were well known barbers in Utrecht.

His edges aren't the sharpest, and he isn't the cheapest vendor around, and -o horror!- he does sell paki-junk too, but his shop is to my knowledge the best stocked bricks and mortar one in the country. It's like a tiny museum, filled to the brim with SR's, DE's, brushes, strops, soaps, hair tonics and what have you. He has some hones, including translucent Arks and Coticules, too. An excellent place to see, try, be informed and maybe buy.

Also, although I don't feel I've the required knowledge to teach you how to hone properly, if you are near Utrecht, feel free to contact me; I'd be happy to talk about and lend you a Translucent, Coticule and/or any of the other hones mentioned so you can find out for yourself which you like best.

Thank Oldengaerde,

my razor is in fact a new Dovo Black star, which I bought about a year and a half ago from Erik Flandrijn in Leiden (also a great place to go and a very nice chap indeed).
You're right; the razor is a good one and I'm not doing restorations (Yet, you never know when the bug bites). Maybe a barber hone is an option.
Somehow I read a lot about honingstone, bu less about barber hones.
What would be a good one and where to find one. Anybody has an idea?

Having said this, I just wonder if a coticule with just water or a very diluted slurry wouldn't do everything a barberhone does (and more)? Reading a lot about coticules (thanks Bart and others) it seems they cover the entire rang from coarse (thick slurry) to something similar to 16k (plain water or even dry) or more (or am I mistaken)?
Without making it sound as something magical, it does sounds as a 'good for everyting'-stone.

Ps. I'd like to take op the invitation when I'm near Utrecht (which is not very often. The same holds of course when your near Groningen.:beer2:

I don't know if it's proper to say the coticule is best for everything, but a large combination coticule/BBW has a very wide range of effectiveness, as either stone can be used with slurry or water, giving effectively 4 grit levels.

Assuming both are 'good' rocks, consistent without irregular inclusions, it's a lifetimes worth of sharp, for your razors and kitchen knives both...when you realize how LONG they last, they seem like a true bargain.

Is it worth one dollar a month to have an excellent stone? You probably won't have to pay that much..

To further confuse the original poster the Norton 4/8K combination
stone may be a worthy alternative and I think it is a better razor
hone solution than an Arkansas.

I have coticules and arkansas stones of several grades; and if the budget permits a full size coticule, I highly recommend it. If a natural combination stone isn't readily available, one BBW and one Coticule are only slightly less convenient and significantly less expensive.

The BBW is a faster hone (with slurry) and around 4000 grit, excellent for moving metal but not producing shave ready edges (as far as I know, some expert may know better) ..

and the coticule generally called 8000 grit and used for the final edge smoothing and thinning. Get it.

The steps you take afterwards, stropping of whatever sort, work best on a blade already as smooth and thin as possible. Stropping can't totally cover up the character of previous honing, unless one is using abrasive pastes on the strop that act AS hones.