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I need some honest feedback.... I am looking into getting a set of hones. This is what I am looking at...either the Norton starter kit with the 220/1000, 4000/8000 combos and a lapping stone or the Naniwa 1000, 3000/8000 combo from SRD. Please help with some input.
The only one of those that I have is the 1000 Naniwa and I'm very happy with it. Cuts a beautiful bevel with a minimum of fuss. You might want to consider a finer polisher than the 8000, as well, though people do get good shaves off that grit. Hope this helps, there's a wealth of information on both types on the forums.
Either will work fine. There's loads of info on the Nortons, so if you get stuck, someone can surely help. Lots of guys also like the Naniwas. If cost doesn't matter (Nortons tend to be a bit cheaper), you won't really go wrong w/ either choice. You will need something to lap with, though. (Good quality) wet/dry sandpaper will do fine, but after a while, you'll find a D8C to be more cost-effective. You could end up spending as much on sandpaper as on the diamond plate after a while!
Personally I'd go for the Naniwas. I've been hearing nothing but rave reviews about them, loads of people use them on SRP so theres a good support network and they dont need soaking before use, just a quick spray of water and you're ready to go!
+1 on the Naniwas.
The 8000 leaves a decent edge, smoother than you might think, and if you want finer you could strop on CrOx or add the 10,00 or 12,000 offering in the same range of hones.
I don't rate the norton 220 very highly - unless you like honing with the stone practically submerged (or keep flooding it with water every 5-10 laps or so) and enjoy lapping a lot: it goes concave alarmingly quickly. At that sort of grit a coarse diamond plate is a better option, plus you can use it for lapping. And you will have to make some provision for lapping, even if it is only a truly flat surface with various grades of abrasive paper laid on it.
What Stubear says about soaking is very true - the naniwas only need a bit of water on the surface immediately prior to honing.
Regards,
Neil
One thing that is nice about the Nortons is you get the whole set for $120 (w/ free shipping too!) at amazon. here
The naniwas will likely be more expensive and require shipping. As well as a lapping plate. Though from what I've read the norton one breaks down and requires lapping itself so....
One thing I would be weary of, but I've heard its been done before is going 3k to 8k on the Naniwas but it shouldn't be bad just use less pressure on the 3k and a few more laps on the 8k.
I think either way you have a good support system but I personally (from limited use of the Nortons) prefer the Naniwas. However a wise man once posted: pick some stones and stick to them, its more about knowing how to use what you've got well than having "the best" stones.
Thanks for good info I have some time before I make a decision. SRD has free shipping also, so that isn't part of my decision making. Actually both sets are within a few dollars of each other. Anyway thanks again keep posting if there are more out there with info.
Here's another vote for the Naniwa's. I have both sets of stones. One thing, The Nortons have to soak. The Naniwa's dont'....
+ 1, another vote for the Naniwas.Quote:
Originally Posted by zib
I'm a coticule user but have a general question which might assist the OP too: what happens if you don't soak these Nortons? Do they explode or something?
if you don't soak the nortons they don't work properly. i suspect it goes beyond just efficiency, if the binder flakes you'll get a damaged edge.
if it's 1000, 5000, 8000 naniwas i'd say take them as long as the difference is not much. I have not used the 3000 instead of 5000, so I don't know how it works in practice, just that it is possible.
For me the main advantage of naniwa is the softer feedback and the no soaking. The nortons will work equally well as far as function goes.
I have the 3k and 5k and in my experience one can do just the 3k or just the 5k, but I feel like one has to be be more patient and mindful jumping from the 3k, where as 1k to 5k is not bad. 1k->3k->5k is a nice progression though.
With regards to soaking I'm no expert so regardless of any problem issues it would be plain old annoying. You'll find quickly that honing on a dry stone is one feeling and works well with fine touch ups (barber hone) and honing with a lubricant is another, but when a stone is slightly wet it swarfs really fast and has a sticky, tons of "draw"/"feedback" feeling that just feels terrible. You'll know when you hone- as the stone dries out you add a little water and its all better.
Since the Nortons absorb water when you soak them then they are of course soaked. If you don't soak them when you wet them they just suck it up. And you rewet them. And they suck it up. Etc Etc until you have soaked them with a spray bottle lol. And its an inconvenience.
If someone has a different opinion I will gladly accept it. This has just been my very limited experience.
Here is another question? Are the grit rating on the Naniwas the same as the Nortons? I noticed a few bits of literature thati have read say that the Japanese rating system is different than the US?
This is debated but if they aren't they are both quite close. The Naniwas are definitely JIS (Japanese) and the Nortons are either JIS or old JIS. They seem to be used similarly so...
for the record 8k ANSI would be like, .00000001 micron or something really tiny. its like 2k ANSI=8k JIS or something.
If one were just going to have a Naniwa to keep up their razors inbetween having to send them out what would be a good suggestion?
it doesn't matter if they are the same or not. you appear to be interested in buying them for their ability to hone razors, not for their grit rating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba4422
I bet I could do it with the 12000, but will probably recommend the 8000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba4422
Gugi what about the 10k? Would that be a balance of the two? I guess looking to the future one needs an 8k and 12k in progression so a 10k might be extraneous, but if thats all one got, surely it would be a balance? What are your thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Well, I've never used the 10k, so I have no idea how it would work.
I just got a razor that is probably honed on a coticule, but I'd like it sharper, and I was going to do the naniwa 12000 so that I can post the experience this thread.
But then I decided that since the razor was likely coticuled it'll be fun to continue that, so I dusted out the ole coticules which I haven't really touched for 9 months or so.
I actually ended up not doing that razor but instead pulled another ebay win to hone on the coticules only and check that I still can do it. It was definitely a blast and it felt a lot more like an art since the slurry thing is not really very precise.
Took me about an hour or hour an a half and it would've been a 20min job on the naniwas, but I didn't care at all. I'll have to find some more time to mess around with few more razors on the coticules... too many stones too little time to use them :)
The 10,000 naniwa gives a noticable refinement over the 8,000 naniwa. There isn't a lot between the 10,000 and 12,000 naniwas, though - both give exceptionally good shaving edges. The 10,000 naniwa after a coticule makes the edge a little bit keener - although the naniwas still give a smooth shave, just not as smooth as the coticule (with the exception of a very hard tiger-striped coticule I have, which gives quite a keen edge).
Regards,
Neil
Here is another question anbout the Naniwas.... If you don't have the lapping plate can wet/dry paper be used on a flat surface?
Yes, use plenty of water. I used 400 grit wet/dry on a glass plaque and it worked just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba4422
I would like to add to this with another question. Are the Shaptons worth the extra $ over the Naniwas? I noticed SRD had a Naniwa 5K/8K/12K set for $173.?? and a Shapton 4K/8K/16K set for (with a nice looking stand for storing I might add) for about $80 more. Are they worth it? Also I know the Naniwas have to be lapped but what about the Shaptons? They (the Shaptons) also look pretty thin. Are they as fragile as they look?
I plan on purchasing one of the other in the coming weeks as soon as taxes come back so I'm looking for info. :beer2: