Shapton Glass Stones - Questions

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02-17-2010, 07:20 AM
Spartigus

Shapton Glass Stones - Questions

Hey Everyone!
I just purchased a new set of Shapton Glass Stones, they should come next week :D. Im getting a 1k, 4k, 8k and a 16k :D, they are my first hones :D.

I understand you can get lapping stones, but i also read you can lap using a flat surface and wet/dry sandpaper. What sort of grit should i use, i hear around 350ish is good?

Do I need to soak the stone before use? Or do i just cover the surface with water?

Do i need to use slurry stones?

Thanks
Marco
02-17-2010, 08:11 AM
Stubear

Congrats! Let the HAD begin...! :D

They're great stones, I have the exact same set and they are putting great edges on my razors. I'm very happy with them, and there are a load of other people here who use them as well, so a good support base if you have questions.

You can use sandpaper and 350 grit would be fine. Just make sure the surface is totally flat though, or you will round the hones.

I use a DMT 325 for lapping all of my hones, from 1k up to 16k. The reason I prefer the DMT is that it doesnt leave grit in the surface of the hone (which sandpaper can do, so if you use it, check for grit afterwards!), and you can use the DMT for major edge repair if needed.

But the sandpaper will be fine if you dont want the cost of the DMT. As I say, just make sure you have a totally flat surface and check the surface of the hone after lapping for any stray grit. When you lap them, use some water but dont submerge the hones. Check the WIKI for the hone lapping 101 article.

Do not soak these stones! If you soak them, you could really damage them. All thats needed is a splash of water on the surface before you begin honing. If you have a water sprayer, use that to spritz the surface.

You dont need to use slurry stones with these hones. Just a bit of water and start honing! :)

When honing, keep the pressure light and flip the razor over on the spine. This really is one of those things that just comes down to practice, as its definately an art, not a science...! Its good fun though, and you'll enjoy using the Shapton stones and the results they give.

Good luck!
02-17-2010, 08:33 AM
Spartigus

Thanks mate!!!

I love the wiki lol, sooo much information. I might try pick up a piece of marble or something like that at my local hardware store to make a lapping "plate" :D.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubear

Congrats! Let the HAD begin...! :D

They're great stones, I have the exact same set and they are putting great edges on my razors. I'm very happy with them, and there are a load of other people here who use them as well, so a good support base if you have questions.

You can use sandpaper and 350 grit would be fine. Just make sure the surface is totally flat though, or you will round the hones.

I use a DMT 325 for lapping all of my hones, from 1k up to 16k. The reason I prefer the DMT is that it doesnt leave grit in the surface of the hone (which sandpaper can do, so if you use it, check for grit afterwards!), and you can use the DMT for major edge repair if needed.

But the sandpaper will be fine if you dont want the cost of the DMT. As I say, just make sure you have a totally flat surface and check the surface of the hone after lapping for any stray grit. When you lap them, use some water but dont submerge the hones. Check the WIKI for the hone lapping 101 article.

Do not soak these stones! If you soak them, you could really damage them. All thats needed is a splash of water on the surface before you begin honing. If you have a water sprayer, use that to spritz the surface.

You dont need to use slurry stones with these hones. Just a bit of water and start honing! :)

When honing, keep the pressure light and flip the razor over on the spine. This really is one of those things that just comes down to practice, as its definately an art, not a science...! Its good fun though, and you'll enjoy using the Shapton stones and the results they give.

Good luck!
02-17-2010, 11:10 AM
gssixgun

This is the one time I would highly recommend spending money BUY the DMT 325 and a stone holder...

You will end up ahead in a short time from the cost of the marble and the sandpaper and it is sooooooooo much easier faster and more exact..

I very rarely tell people to spend more money if there is a cheaper way but there really is a difference here... You do not need the $275 Shapton GDLP but boy that DMT sure works nice and as Stubear said it can be used for restoration too...
02-17-2010, 11:43 AM
Stubear

What Glen said..! :D
02-17-2010, 03:44 PM
ccgnet

I own the Shapton GDLP and the DMT 325. The DMT works just as well for a lot less cost

Chris
02-17-2010, 05:08 PM
ChrisL

You don't need a slurry stone of course, but often I use a broken piece of barber hone on the Shapton stones up to and including the 4k stone as a slurry stone and also as a refresher. I've found that rubbing a barber hone piece on the Shapton lower grit stones means I can hone longer without having to refresh on my lapping stones.

The colored slurry also acts as an added visual aid giving you an idea of how the blade acts on the stone.

I do not use this process every time, it's just another added tool in the toolbox. Like other slurry honing, I thin slurry and end the passes on each stone with some plain water passes before moving up.

Chris L
02-17-2010, 10:34 PM
Spartigus

Thanks :D, i get what you mean :D

I will have to wait about a month before i get a DMT 325 and stone holder :(. on SRD, there isnt a DMT 325, will some become available soon?

So you could say use a DMT 325 instead of say a 400 grit hone for bevel setting?

EDIT: When i said bevel setting, i meant serious edge repair
02-17-2010, 10:43 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartigus

Thanks :D, i get what you mean :D

I will have to wait about a month before i get a DMT 325 and stone holder :(. on SRD, there isnt a DMT 325, will some become available soon?

So you could say use a DMT 325 instead of say a 400 grit hone for bevel setting?

If you wanted to sharpen kitchen knives, or take serious chips out of a straight razor you might use the DMT 325. For bevel setting your 1k shapton on a dull razor and maybe the 4k on a brand new one.
02-17-2010, 10:55 PM
gssixgun

:) did you noticed that Stu and I both said nothing about bevel setting at all with a 325??? He said major edge repair and I said restoration...

Bevel sets are as Jimmy just pointed out at the 1k-4k range depending on the razor...
02-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Spartigus

Ahhh right i get it, when i said bevel setting i used the wrong term, i meant as you said, serious edge repair. And my soon to come 1k for bevel setting, as per the wiki :D.

Does a lack of a DTM 325 on SRD indicate no stock of it?
02-18-2010, 12:48 AM
Ryan82

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartigus

Does a lack of a DTM 325 on SRD indicate no stock of it?

Yes, that's what it means.

They usually stock up quickly. Check again in a week or two, and when you see them buy fast because they do seem to fly off the shelves.
02-18-2010, 01:15 AM
Spartigus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Yes, that's what it means.

They usually stock up quickly. Check again in a week or two, and when you see them buy fast because they do seem to fly off the shelves.

Thanks mate
02-19-2010, 02:05 AM
Spartigus

I have some 280 grit wet/dry sitting around, will that be fine for lapping? or would like 325 be better?
02-19-2010, 02:20 AM
niftyshaving

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartigus

I have some 280 grit wet/dry sitting around, will that be fine for lapping? or would like 325 be better?

Close enough....
If you have 280 use it as long as you have a flat surface.
In fact after a coarse paper you can use a finer paper to
lightly finish the surface and make it a bit smoother. Do
rinse the surface with a good bit of water to remove any
grit from what ever lap you have.

Long term you will want a largish DMT to keep your hones flat.

I said long term because it takes a while to dish out a hone
when you are honing razors only for yourself.
02-19-2010, 02:34 AM
Spartigus

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Close enough....
If you have 280 use it as long as you have a flat surface.
In fact after a coarse paper you can use a finer paper to
lightly finish the surface and make it a bit smoother. Do
rinse the surface with a good bit of water to remove any
grit from what ever lap you have.

Long term you will want a largish DMT to keep your hones flat.

I said long term because it takes a while to dish out a hone
when you are honing razors only for yourself.

Thanks :D

Yeah my next purchase will be a DMT :D.

So i could make it smooth enough with like 325 grit paper?
02-19-2010, 04:49 AM
niftyshaving

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartigus

Thanks :D

Yeah my next purchase will be a DMT :D.

So i could make it smooth enough with like 325 grit paper?

Smooth???? Flat is the key....!!!!

The goal of lapping is to get the surface flat.... so the first question
is will you get it flat.

If it is not smooth enough you can use a finer paper.
But even smoothness is not a big deal.... by the second
razor the irregularities from your 325 paper will be mostly
gone.

AND the key reason for flat is so when you change stones/ grit
the shape of the surface of each hone is the same. If all
your stones had identical dishing even as much as the thickness of
a thin coin the razor would hone up just fine.

I have not heard that new Shapton Glass hones need a
surface treatment the way a new Norton seem to.
02-19-2010, 05:10 AM
PA23-250

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisL

You don't need a slurry stone of course, but often I use a broken piece of barber hone on the Shapton stones up to and including the 4k stone as a slurry stone and also as a refresher. I've found that rubbing a barber hone piece on the Shapton lower grit stones means I can hone longer without having to refresh on my lapping stones.

The colored slurry also acts as an added visual aid giving you an idea of how the blade acts on the stone.

I do not use this process every time, it's just another added tool in the toolbox. Like other slurry honing, I thin slurry and end the passes on each stone with some plain water passes before moving up.

Chris L

You could also use a credit card sized DMT C for that. :) Another good option.
02-19-2010, 10:33 AM
Spartigus

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Smooth???? Flat is the key....!!!!

The goal of lapping is to get the surface flat.... so the first question
is will you get it flat.

If it is not smooth enough you can use a finer paper.
But even smoothness is not a big deal.... by the second
razor the irregularities from your 325 paper will be mostly
gone.

AND the key reason for flat is so when you change stones/ grit
the shape of the surface of each hone is the same. If all
your stones had identical dishing even as much as the thickness of
a thin coin the razor would hone up just fine.

I have not heard that new Shapton Glass hones need a
surface treatment the way a new Norton seem to.

Yeah i know you lap to make them flat, but i was concerned about using sandpaper that was too rough, a hone thats too rough might cause problems honing. But after i read your reply, i realized that the hones will release particles the size of its grit, so as long as its flat, and a reasonably fine sandpaper, i should be fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA23-250

You could also use a credit card sized DMT C for that. :) Another good option.

Yeah i cant wait to get my hands on a DMT :D

EDIT:
So i should be fine not lapping them when i get them brand new? I might just make sure they are flat with some paper and grid lines, it will take 5 minutes and it could save me hours in terms of honing if they arent flat.