Hones in the uk?
Where in the uk can i buy a natural hone?
Preferably from brittish stone?
it seems like all i can find is diamond or other man made composite stones.
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Hones in the uk?
Where in the uk can i buy a natural hone?
Preferably from brittish stone?
it seems like all i can find is diamond or other man made composite stones.
Wales for new DT slate hones (Inigo Jones) , apart from that - second hand? Ebay?
Regards,
Neil
Yea, here's the link for the DT: Inigo Jones - Welsh Slate Craft Tours and Online Store
Other British hones include Tam O'Shanter, Dalmore Blue, Charnley Forest, Dalmore Yellow (no good for razors? I hear its "sandy"), Water of Ayre - that's all I can think of off the top of my head. AFAIK you can't buy these retail anymore.
The UK, as well as our neighbour the ROI, is a treasure trove of many fine, not to mention little known, honestones. Most people seem to be aware of those listed in Richard Knight's Catalogue of hones, these being the Charnwood/ Charnley Forest Stones; the Devonshire Oilstone (which sucks big time;) the Idwal Oilstone and the Cutler's Green from Wales as well as the various hones that were sold by the Tam O' Shanter Honeworks. Not mentioned by Knight, but available every so often are the Yellow Lake Oilstone from Wales and the Cambrock Silkstone from God knows where in England. There are many others, each time I think I have formed a comprehensive list of British hones, I find out about more from one obscure source or another.
As straight razor users the British hone of most interest is the Moughton Whetstone from Yorkshire as this was mined specifically for the Sheffield razor trade. As I mentioned in another thread hones from Codnor Park and Woodthorpe in Derbyshire were used as razor hones. Hones from Bangor in Ireland were also exploited as a source of razor stones. Others that have a history of use as razor hones, but which weren't exploited commercially, are the Devil's Punch Bowl Whetstone from the Mangerton Mountains and a hone from Clutton Ridge in Avon. Stones found in Mount's Head, Cornwall are regarded as being as fine as any other known stone.
One particularly interesting hone, is one that is known simply as the Green Hone, which was found in the old pavements of London. This stone was used in putting the final edge on a razor with the spine raised, the resulting edge was able to slice through a piece of leather without making a sound, which, according to the author, was the one true test for a perfect edge.
I know of countless otheres if anyone's interested.
Kindest regards,
Alex
Arrrggggh I'd sell my soul for a Moughton Whetstone . :cry: :banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by A_S
Derbyshire stone tho i think it's not quite what you had in mind :)
ian
I i were to get some of the stone, could any one on here turn it into somthing usable?????Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
And what would the exact qualitys of the stone need to be?
Pics of a Moughton?
This forum has some photo's of the area where the stone is found, Moughton Whetstone Hole(photo heavy) - BushcraftUK: Community Forum.
A link to a better picture of the stone itself can be found in post no. 25 of this thread, http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...l-stone-3.html
Kindest regards,
Alex
I have been looking for green stone for some time. i have find finally. It does confuse me. i am not sure 100% this is exact stone you mention above. will find out where it is and post picture of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_S
Sham when you say green stone do you mean the Cuttles Green?
No it just called " green hone "and suppose to be the the best. i have been looking for it for a long time. What i have i am not sure this is the stone or not. will check home tomorrow and find out where it is. make pictures post in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrspach
I thought the Turkey stone was supposed to be the best ? What happened with that ? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
There are a great many stones that, at one time or another, have been described as the best in the world. These include; Arkansas hones, Grindstone City Hones, Caernarvonshire Novaculite, Idwal Oil Stones, Mount's Head Hones, Bilston Whetstones, Lough Neah Hones, Spa Hones, the mysterious Green hone and the ubiquitous Turkey Hones. So many hones, so little time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Kindest regards,
Alex
Just as a point of interest, I have somehow managed to accumulate quite a few vintage coticules. More than a dozen. In honing with them I've found some are markedly better than others with my hand anyhow. Makes me wonder how much difference there may be depending on what part of the strata a particular rock is harvested from ?Quote:
Originally Posted by A_S
The different strata from which each rock is taken has, in many cases, a distinct impact on it's characteristics and performance. The trouble is, these days, we just don't have the necessary information to hand to determine the exact origins of many of the hones we use and are therefore unable to make hard and fast distinctions as to how this would affect the performance. The obvious exceptions to the rule are the Coticules, where the different strata have been properly labelled and we still have a company actively working the rock; and of course the various Japanese Hones and their countless and confusing categories. Whilst we have a better geological understanding of the Coticule, and older references on other stones such as the Arkansas and Hindostan, I haven't come across any Western material that offers as comprehensive and painstaking categorisation as exists for Japanese Hones. Based on what information is out there we can make some broad generalisations about how the different strata perform as hones. The most obvious example is the Hindostan whetstones from Indiana, where the deeper layers were more compacted and, consequently, less friable. There were also certain ledges where iron intrudes into the whetstones, and these are also valued for their performance as hones, eventhough they had a tendency to glaze over very quickly. Other examples where different layers of hones occur in the same bed, but differ in performance include the novaculites of McPherson's Quarry in North Carolina and those of Littleton in New Hampshire. In McPherson's Quarry the distinction was made between which stones were most suited for use with oil and which were used with water, but in Littleton distinctions were made about quality based on colour, the buff coloured hones being the most desirable. There is also an area in Colorado where different types of hone are categorised based on their depth of occurrence, the first few feet containing whetstones, followed by finer-grained oil-stones and finally several feet of very fine material used for razor hones. We also find many areas where only one or two layers of many are suitable, for example the whetstones found amongst the coalfields of Bilston, where other beds found use as building materials, fire bricks and in decorative masonry. Syenite or granite dykes will also affect different layers of the strata based on their proximity to the stone in question. Sometimes this is a good thing where regular slate is metamorphosed into hone-slate like at Hestercombe, in other cases the dyke can make the stone too hard to be of any use like at Bald's Head.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
We can make a fairly broad generalisation and say that the deeper the layer, the harder the stone, much like the reportedly excellent hones found in the vicinity of the Arbuckle Mountains, although these stones were further improved by weathering action on the surface material. Compression of this sort is also one of the factors in the forming of garnet crystals.
However certain stones don't fall into this category, for example the Novaculite of Chapel Hill in North Carolina was notoriously variable and showed a wide degree of quality variation in stones that wre dug from the same spot, although in general the hones from this area were still well thought of. Other types of hone material have found use in the form of rocks that are simply strewn around. Good examples of this are the hones and oilstones from Murphree's Valley in Alabama and stones found on the beach at Mount's Head in Cornwall. Although the Geological Survey of Alabama notes that there are harder stones suited for use as oilstones and softer stone suitable for use with the finest tools, there doesn't seem to have been any particular delineation between the two types. Also, the stone wasn't commercially wrought, the Geological Survey noting that those examples that had found use as hones/ oilstones were simply picked up by curious local tradesmen and found to answer well for the purpose. At Mount's Head the hones don't occur in beds or distinct strata, but are simply found scattered on the beach; stones from this location being some of the very finest in the world. Similiarly, the original Lydian stones of Asia wre found in the form of loose rocks.
Of course there are other areas where the quality of the stone is very consistent and the article is always well regarded much like those from Llyn Idwal in Wales. Also the hones from Spa, regarded as without equal in all Europe, were worked in a few quarries, but no distinction is made between different types.
As I stated at the start of this excessively long post, we just don't have the necessary information these days to make this kind of distinction with the hones we use. Either the area from which the hones were taken has dwindled significantly, much like the Arkansas stones, where previously many types were categorised not by different strata but by whole mountain ranges, (the best, incidentally, being found on Hot Springs Ridge); or the information has been lost to the ages, like those hones formerly found in Chorley Forest in Lancashire. There were a great many different qualities of honestone found in the area, from the coarsest to the finest each serving a different area of the Sheffield cutlery industry, as well as an important International market up to the late 1700's. It was both desirous, and economically important to be able to make a clear distinction between the types, but alas, no records survive to the modern day, save one 19th Century Mineralogy which mentions the hones in passing but gives no information on the different types. The same book also mention many different varieties of Dendritical Novaculite to be found in the Lake District, but doesn't give any more details as to how these were categorised. I've also seen you comment Jimmy, that Escher must have labelled their stones according to colour-type for a reason, and assuming that they sourced all of their hones from the same area, disitinction based on particular strata is as sound a theory as anything else, but we just don't have the vital information anymore, unless someone has an old Escher catalogue and they've been holding out on us.
For those of you sensible enough to have jumped straight to the end of another one of my seemingly interminable posts, yes distinctions were made according to strata, and where the information survives we can in most instances see the value accorded to the different layers. Unfortunately, in many instances where this knowledge would have been helpful in determining which layers would be of most promise as a razor hone, the information is no longer available.
Hope this is of some help and interest to everyone.
Kindest regards,
Alex
Thank You Alex you save me.Quote:
Originally Posted by A_S