Looking for first hone...

Hello gents, total newbie here. Have a razor on order from RupRazor, the wait is killing me. I also ordered everything else I'm going to need, strop, brush, mug, shave soap, styptic pencil (hope I won't need that). What I don't have is a hone. My dad and I are very active hunters, shooters, fisherman and so on. There are lots of knives in my house. Therefore there are lots of sharpening stones of all sorts and grits, whetstones, dry stones, stones to be used with oil and so on. What I would like to find out is, how can I know how fine is fine enough for the occasional touch up? Is there any way that I can tell if a stone is suitable for straight razors by feel? Should I just get myself a dedicated barber hone instead of trying to be cheap (probably lol)? Any info is appreciated.

Touchup hones are typically 10k or higher. I would guess that, unless you guys are really nuts about your knives, you'll not be able to use a hone you already have for this purpose.

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Originally Posted by ErinGoBragh

Hello gents, total newbie here. Have a razor on order from RupRazor, the wait is killing me. I also ordered everything else I'm going to need, strop, brush, mug, shave soap, styptic pencil (hope I won't need that). What I don't have is a hone. My dad and I are very active hunters, shooters, fisherman and so on. There are lots of knives in my house. Therefore there are lots of sharpening stones of all sorts and grits, whetstones, dry stones, stones to be used with oil and so on. What I would like to find out is, how can I know how fine is fine enough for the occasional touch up? Is there any way that I can tell if a stone is suitable for straight razors by feel? Should I just get myself a dedicated barber hone instead of trying to be cheap (probably lol)? Any info is appreciated.

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I think a two sided barber hone, like a Keen Kutter Kombination, is a good way to get into honing. You actually are buying two hones, one side for sharpening and one for finishing/polishing. Add a CrO paddle and linen/leather strop and you have multiple levels of sharpening/finishing for very little money. The high grit of the sharpening side can substitute for a lower grit stone if you are willing to do a couple hundred careful passes. Good luck.

Well, the downside to looking for a particular barber hone is that they can be near impossible to find. I personally don't like barber hones because they are so small, but that's just my preference.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Well, the downside to looking for a particular barber hone is that they can be near impossible to find. I personally don't like barber hones because they are so small, but that's just my preference.

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Yeah, they are small. First time buyers should check the measurements given and be prepared for it to look smaller than you imagined. Online photos seem to make them appear larger than they really are.

I know where you're coming from. I'm new to straights but have a history with knives and sharpening them... I'm no knife guru but I was surprised to find that the degree of sharpness that is 'shave-ready' is leagues above my sharpest kitchen knives and skinners (even tho they all shave arm hair). I doubt you'll be able to 'feel' the ultra fine grit you need, I don't think I can, suffice to say, it's smooth! Your finest corborundum or india stone isn't fine enough. I doubt you have ultrafine (>8k) waterstones around for the knives, but some do. Have any arkansas stones? I have sharpened a razor on a progression of soft->hard arkansas, but still had to finish it on something finer. I've used a barber hone (good results) and a translucent arkansas (great results) and am waiting to try out a surgical black arkansas I just cleaned up. Those aren't uncommon knife hones, so who know's, maybe you've got some? If you don't, as already mentioned, barber hones and/or pasted strop are fairly inexpensive ways to keep a sharp razor sharp and a good place to start.

-D

IRELAND FOREVER!!

http://diaspora.ie/starship/wp-conte...Irish-Harp.gif

What stones do you have?
some of the stones I had for my knives are the same that are used for razors too.

Erin,

If you have a hone that will put a mirror-like polish on one of your knives, it may be about the right grit to try for touching up a razor, although I suspect that the hones you have will be too coarse for finishing work on a razor. If one of your hones happens to be a Black Hard or Translucent Arkansas, you might be in luck. These stones seem to be much maligned in these parts, but they were named after the latin word for razor stone... novacula not Arkansas.

A caution with coarse hones and razors is that razor steel is hardened and tempered to the degree that the steel is quite delicate and a coarse stone can cause minute chips to develop at the edge. Then you have to hone the blade until those chips are ground out, and if you use the hone that helped create them in the first place, again, to get rid of them, well -- you may have just invented perpetual motion.

The real gurus here will give you sound advice. I'd try, but I've been trying to raise a shaving edge on a new razor and let's just say that it ain't going just quite swell... if you get my drift. So my advice at present isn't worth the proverbial pinch.

good luck

:beer2:

a decent finishing hone from the classifieds is great way to start & you prob won't be too far off the pace,
welcome to the forum
tog go bog e :beer2:

Here is my advice as somebody who has more hones then sense, and even sells barbers hones, and hones razors professionally...

Don't buy anything... learn to shave first concentrate on that, leave the honing for later...

You will have a much better sense of what you want to accomplish after you learn to shave and spend sometime with the razors..

and read this too, parts of it are in the Wiki but here is the full version



Some thoughts on honing razors..

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Aspiring honers are often not clear about what they are trying to accomplish when it comes to honing razors. In particular, they are often unsure of what they are doing and how often they should be doing it. Some questions you might want to answer for yourself before you start buying hones:

■ Are you an "end-user"; someone who only hones a previously shave-ready blade back to shave-ready?
■ Are you a hobbyist who is chasing the absolute finest edge that may be obtained where money is no object?
■ Are you a frugal shaver who is after the cheapest way to complete your morning shave?
■ Are you a collector who needs to take E-bay specials from butt-ugly to shave-ready?
■ Are you a Honemiester; someone who gets paid to do all of these things for others?
■ Are you a razor restorer who needs to take damaged blades and bring them back to life and shave-readiness?

Each of these types of honer profiles have different requirements for the stones they will own. Theoretically, you can survive using the "one stone" approach, but each razor does have an optimum stone set - and more importantly, a technique for using the required hones. So generally, when somebody asks what stone or how to use what stone, the question to ask them is: "What are you trying to accomplish with the stone(S)?"

Refreshing vs. Starting from Scratch:

The types of hones required depends first and foremost on the type of honing you want to do.

Hones needed for refreshing a dull blade:

If the only task you want to perform is refreshing edges that have previously been established by a Honemiester (the process is often referred to as "touching up"), you need only get a fine grit finishing stone or a barber's hone for this. Either of these hones can be used to keep your razor(s) shave-ready for years.

Hones needed for restoring razors:

If you want to set a bevel, or have many different types of razors, you will need a full set of hones.


A bevel setting stone approximately 1k

DMT's 325 600 1200, Shapton 500, 1K and 2K, Coticules with slurry, Norton 1k, Naniwa 1k

A sharpening stone approximately 4k

Norton 4K, Shapton 4K Naniwa 3k or 5k, Belgian Blue with slurry

A polishing stone approximately 8k

Norton 8k, Shapton 8k, Naniwa 8k, Yellow Coticule

A finishing stone 10k and above (this is often subject to debate, however)

Shapton GS 16k-30k Shapton 15k Naniwa SS 10k-12k or Chosera 12k, Thuringens, Escher's, Many different natural Japanese finishers, Charlney Forest, Extra Fine Coticule, even some of the Arkansas stones...

You have several choices of how to accomplish this setup whether you use natural, man-made stone, or a Diamond-style stone, but you are going to have to be able to cover those 4 grit ranges. There really is no true shortcut here if you expect to take razors acquired in need of restoration from butter knife dull (or damaged) to shaving sharp: You are going to end up needing these types of stones. This can also be accomplished with the judicious use of a slurry but essentially you are still going through these grit stages...


Pastes can be used after the hones and before the final stropping also these can be used for re-freshing the edge before going back to the hones for a touch-up...

A few different types

Dovo Pastes:

Green 5-8 micron
Red 3-5 micron
Black 1-3 micron
Dovo pastes are a much more mild cutter then say a diamond paste of the same micron size...

Diamond Paste:

From 3 micron down to actually .10 micron if you really wanted to...
These pastes are fast and many people use them incorrectly and manage too get a harsh edge, when used correctly and on the right razor steel these will most likely be the sharpest edge you will ever feel...

Diamond sprays:

Mostly found in 1.0 .50 and .25 micron watch the Carat content here, the higher the better (SRD has the best I have found and yes Lynn and Don are friends of mine, but heck it is still the best spray I have found)

Chromium Oxide Paste/Powder .50 micron (CrOx)
Probably the most universal of the pastes, get the most pure you can find, and no the bars at Woodcrafters are not pure...

Cerium Oxide Paste/Powder (approx).25 micron (CeOx)

Super fine, super soft, and super smooth, polishing media...The bar at Woodcrafter's is of unknown quality at this time

Other Pastes and Powders:

Iron Oxide
Aluminum Oxide

Both of these can also be used again be very careful when buying this stuff as the purity and the micron sizes are very important...

Carbon blacking/lamp black:

This might be the oldest of all the sharpening "pastes" when used on a leather strop it increases draw

Wood Ash:

Another old fashioned one very slightly abrasive when used on Linen strops and Leather strops..

White chalk:

Can be rubbed on a linen strop to increase the abrasive qualities

Newspaper:

The ink itself is a very fine abrasive and so is the paper..

Keep in mind that different razor steels like/dislike different pastes, and the different media that is used to apply it including Balsa, Linen, Leather (paddle) Leather (hanger) and Felt paddle and hanger all give different results on different razor steels....


The above are only my personal opinions and observations... There are no set rules in Razordom...


PS: I did not include Flims as I do not have much knowledge in their use... There are also many other stones that could fit in here But again I haven't even used them once let alone have true knowledge of them so I did not include them...