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Hi,
I am looking at buying an arkansas stone to fine hone my knives and maybe my razors. Does anyone have any experience with the Arkansas stones and have any recommendations. Or maybe even some recommendations for hones that i can use for both knives and razors.
I'm glad to see this post. I'm fascinated by Arks as well. Old references speak of them highly for razors, I know of one that mentions them as equals to belgian hones and Swaty's, yet they seem to get a bum rap around here. I'm still a newbie so hopefully some of the other Ark afficianados with more experience than me will comment... (I think mparker762 might have a lot to add).
That being said, I can share my ONE experience with you. I honed an ebay special from butterknife dull to shave-ready on a progression of soft to hard to translucent stones. I found the bevel setting fairly straightforward on the soft and could get arm hair sharp but not pass the HHT off the hard ark (I don't recall how many passes to get there but it wasn't terribly slow on an 8" stone, IMO). My translucent is 6x2 and feels like glass, very little feedback, but after many passes (?100 or so) it passed the HHT handily and provided a brilliant shave on my face - nicer than my Swaty! Of course that's my razor on my face with my stone so YMMV...
I don't have any experience with the black ark yet (I just cleaned one up and hopefully can try it out soon).
I have to say the so-called grit ratings don't seem to apply to AR's (or any naturals) as I see it. My soft and hard both produce a highly polished edge that is similar to the translucent, altho feedback and cutting speed increase as the density (hardness) drops. All seem to respond well to progressively lightening pressure to increase keeness. I read a post over at Badger & Blade by a gentleman who brought his razor from dull to shave-ready on a single Washita (lowest density Ark) using lighter and lighter strokes.
As for other hones to use on knives AND razors, the coticule comes to mind...
Thanks for the post, I eagerly await other's input!
-D
I recently became fascinated with Arks also and acquired a vintage Washita, Soft Ark and a translucent. I haven't used them on razors yet, only pocketknives. Back in the '70s I had a set of Smith's Arks in the same grits + a black hard. I recall that the black was terribly slow on knives.Quote:
Originally Posted by dericandteri
Forum member Russel Baldridge has posted on honing razors with Arks here and said that it works but that it is slow and that there are better alternatives because of that. As far as knives, I like the oilstones for knives or tools because of the hardness of the stones.
I would be reluctant to use my waterstones, coticules, Thuringans or synthetics on knives because of the wear that the increased pressure would cause. Maybe it wouldn't be significant but I still wouldn't want to mess with it.
Your post has prompted me to give razors a try on my Arks and I will do that with one razor just to see how that will work for me. Up until now I haven't but you've piqued my curiosity in spite of what I've read others say about it.
I have a hard Arkansas and it is so slowwww. The finish ended up being 3k-4k but it is slower than my 12k waterstone.
In using Arkansas, as they are quite slow, generating a slurry with a 600 grit diamond card, can increase their speed considerably...especially in the difficult stage of bevel setting, imo.
From the surgical black on up, i just use the stones with oil. Hope that helps.
Mac
Either the black or translucent will put a fine edge on a razor, but they are both so slow that they are better used as a barber hone than as a primary hone, i.e. fine for keeping a razor sharp but suboptimal for getting it there in the first place.
Both types are pretty much equivalent for razors, some guys claim the black is superior to the translucent or vice versa, but really they're the same. Arkansas stones are graded by density, not color, and blacks and translucents have the same allowable density range. They get their color from contaminants in the binder not from anything inherent in the abrasive. Because there is an allowable density range for the two types of fine arkansas, there are good translucents and blacks, and mediocre translucents and blacks.
I use mine with either Kroil (very thin liquid penetrating oil similar to WD-40) or soap and water.
mparker's pretty spot-on there. Used black and translucent, can't tell difference. They seem same to me. Buy based on real estate/$.
Definitely couldn't care less what the grit rating is. It shaves well whatever it is called so of no concern to the pragmatic.
Verrrry slow. Likely slowest stone I've ever used. Gonna guess multiple hundred laps coming from a 1k and then a 4k waterstone. Slow's a relative term; finishing a honing with it is time well spent for me, and I really like the edges it makes.
It is a keeper in the sickness of stone collection. Well, to be fair hardly any of them leave the door. But it is both a keeper and a user, which I can't say for all.
Absolute bloody war to flatten if not delivered flat, but stay that way once you get 'em there.
Whats a good way to test if they are flat?
I bought a hard black Arkansas Surgical about three years ago but haven't been able to use it yet. I started to lap this stone with a DMT 325 and have only been able to achieve an oval shaped area in the center of the stone. I would say that the stone is 50% flattened just on that oval area.
This is one hard stone and if I ever get it totally lapped, I think it will be one heck of a polisher. Please note the oval outline on the stone in the photo. That's the only flat part of the stone so far.
I think my DMT 325 is about shot because of this stone. I hope the people in Arkansas aren't as hard as their stones...!!:)
I only had Arks when I started str8 shaving. Slow but nice results. If I had to shave off a low grit stone it would be a Washita rather than a synthetic.
They will lap pretty easily on glass & a progression of SiC powders. I know diamonds are harder but you get the benefit of a slurry which you can't allow on diamond plates.
henders; I like to put a professional-quality ruler atop the hone, hold at arm's length to the sun, and look for light peeking through. But you can kind of tell by the feel of the blade on the stone to me.
I used an 'xx' DMT and it was an absolute battle, but I won and the DMT lived on to lap another day. Perhaps the "coarse" DMT just doesn't have enough muscle for this one?
Draw a pencil grid on the stone and check as it is being removed. Here is a tutorial on flattening a waterstone. I definitely like the sink for lapping stones. Washing the swarf off as I go inures a more accurate lapping IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by hendersr
As kwigibocity said, the DMTXX is a much coarser plate @ 120 grit than the DMTC @ 325 and will eat most stones for breakfast including barber hones. If I have a tough job I start with the XX and finish with the C when I'm almost there.
Old thread, but hey, further validation never hurts. I have both a surgical black and translucent that are about 10 years old. I have gotten very nice edges from both. Just today I shaved with a Dovo that was 'refreshed' on the translucent. With my particular stones, I prefer the feedback from the black, the translucent feeling a bit gritty. On the razor, however, both give really great shaves.
Speed: Arky's might be 'slow', but coming from a woodworking/knife/axe background, I am dedicated to the idea of using the coarsest possible stone at all levels. Once the razor is ready for the final stone, an arky isn't that slow.
JG I like what you said except for the using the coarsest stone, I look close to see just what stone is needed, because I don't like to spend time taking out deep scratches that did not need to be there in the first place. :) Conserve Razor steel....
Interesting to read my own post in this thread back from 2010. At that time I had only used my Arks on pocket knives. Since then, old dog learning new tricks, I have used the translucent, and the black hard on razors, and found that as you say, if the razor is ready for the finisher they aren't that slow. I liken the edge feel (on the face) to a real fine coticule edge, which I happen to like.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgjgjg
I've found the same thing, my translucent gives a very nice edge after an 8k Norton when used with oil
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I know this is an old post but I have to say I have recently fell in love with my old Norton hard ark, which happens to be a grey/translucent variation 2x4x1inch. It is funny considering I have had this stone sitting around before I started honing razors and after being discouraged due to the majority of posts I seen at the time where all against arks as a razor hone. Well I chased after everything from a y/g Escher to a La Veinette coticule and everything in between! Now I'm not saying that my ark is better than my y/g or Lv but I am saying I love it just as much! The edges thus far I have achieved where very nice, it mowed through effortlessly and with how sharp it surprised me that there was no irration! I now am on a mission to get a complete line up of arks, well just got a vintage smiths soft so I'm looking to complete with a hard and washita. Another thing I wanted to say is about the speed, I don't understand why anyone complains about that? I mean if you're like me then you enjoy the zen like feeling of focusing in on your honing! To be honest I get a displeasent feeling when I'm finished and I have nothing to hone LOL Anyway if you're in a hurry grab your synthetics. Well that's all I got. Thanks for all the great info guys
I've got a small variety of stones, and for the exact same reason. When I first started honing razors I was actually considering just going with what I was familiar with - Arkansas stones. I've used them on knives for years. But, I was dissuaded and ended up with a set of Nortons instead because of things said about Arkansas specifically, and naturals in general. Which isn't entirely a bad thing. But from there it branched out. Barber hones, Cnats, Welsh Slates, a Coticule...And of course, eventually I got the set of 8x3 soft & hard bench stones and a few translucents to go with.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesSr
Out of all of that, the Arkanstones are my favorites. I may get the same high quality and very keen edge off my Welsh Slates, a more comfortable one from my coticule or Cnat, and a faster one from my synthetics and barber hone. But I'm happiest when I bring the Arkies out to play. I will say the Welsh Slates come in a close second. I could live happily with just a 1K bevel setter and 3 stones set of Arkies. Black or Translucent to finish, either is fine by me.