Lacquering hone to preserve label

I've got a few Escher stones now that have old labels attached, and so I was looking into preserving the labels by coating the back of the stone plus label with some very nice, clear Japanese urushi lacquer that I bought for another project.

Does anyone have any experience doing this or know of a good reason not to to try it at all? I don't want to hurt the resale value of my hones, but I want to USE them too!! And those delicate, old labels just seem to get more frayed and faded and wet every time I pull the stones out.

(Also, I'd love to know how people have managed the task of restoring or repairing the torn and disintegrating boxes that some of these hones come in. In fact, I'd love to just soak the labels off the boxes in one piece, throw the moldy cardboard away and lacquer the labels to a nice, new hardwood boxes that could be opened, closed and USED instead of just rotting away like the cardboard ones, but I don't know if this would really end up hurting the value of what I have.)

Thanks!

Don't do that i need that Japanese urushi lacquer. i just got my Japanese stone and need it very badly.i will buy nail polisher and ship to you.

you can use any lacquer , even on Jnats

On escher end labels I've used nail polish. On the large labels on the back of the stone I've used an archival preservative called Krylon Preserve it seen here. So far so good.

Hey Sham,

I've got some leftover lacquer from OLD_SCHOOL that
I could send you, it certainly worked well on my Nakayama.

- Scott

Urushi? are you sure? where'd ya get it. whattaya were going to use it for?

One problem, to be honest I have only used two kinds of urushi. One was raw/pure urushi. It is black. The other is called "clear". It's not really clear in our contemporary understanding of clear.

That is not to say there are not some more highly refined Japanese types that could be more clear, less amber-esque. But ..... urushi aint that clear.

other project? was?

Thank you very much. will make my life a lot easier. Stone is great stone and i really don't want to mess around with this stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sebell

Hey Sham,

I've got some leftover lacquer from OLD_SCHOOL that
I could send you, it certainly worked well on my Nakayama.

- Scott

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Oh? I hope you brought enough for everyone!:boohoo:

330mate sells urushi on his website, it cost ~$25 with shipping from Japan to Us

I sure wish that I had preserved the label on my NOS "Deep Rock Belgian" coticule combination stone. The problem was that it was on the BBW side and I wanted to use it...........you are correct to preserve the original label, Jeff.

Thanks all for the advice! I wouldn't think to use nail polish, as the lacquer in nail polish isn't exactly formulated for durability, but Krylon sounds like a good idea.

The urushi I got is clear, but I think I will give it a test run before coating a big section.

And anything I have left will go to the people here, no problem! Thanks, guys!

Jeff,

I've had great results with some inexpensive spray stuff called "Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear", in clear satin finish. It's waterproof, dries hard in two hours, and is very subtle but very protective. It won't darken the label, either.

I used it on this Escher below, which i got off eBay for a good price last year. The label was fragile and deteriorating, and since applying the Krylon, the label appears identical to before application. Viewed at an angle, you can detect a satin protective coat. I masked all of the non-labeled stone surface with blue "Duck" brand painter's tape to prevent getting any of it anywhere except the label, and then sprayed away. The Krylon finish stood up well to my lapping of the stone to remove some deep gouges at one edge. Water just beaded on the label.


Here's a picture of the Escher with the Krylon. I don't have a "before" picture, but it's pretty much identical:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...scherLabel.jpg


Sham, I've used Urushi lacquer to protect the edges of two of my Japanese stones. It's great stuff and very protective. But it's at thick as molasses, mine took over a week to dry hard between the two coats, and it's not clear - it puts a strong amber tint on the stone surface. I used Urushi because I wanted to be totally traditional with my Japanese stones.

But I haven't used it on one of my Japanese stones yet because it has such a beautiful "skin" on the reverse side that I don't want to alter or obscure it. This is not to speak ill of Urushi, it's wonderful and quite durable when it's done. But it is worth noting in your decision.

Here is my Nakayama Maruka Kiita BEFORE applying Urushi lacquer to the sides:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...amaKiita02.jpg


And here is the same stone (in different light, sorry) AFTER applying urushi to the sides. The difference is noticeable, and you get a feel for the thickness of the Urushi finish. The Urushi is definitely not Krylon :):

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ck/Kiita04.jpg

Heh, heh, You are right about that Tim, it is not krylon. It is simply amazing stuff.

And you shouldn't put : poisonous plant resin on the customs declaration.

I always buy from Namikawa. wonderful people/ easy communication

Tim, holy moley, I thought I had some decent looking hones, but yours are giving me a complex!! Very nice hones, especially the Kiita. Where the heck did you get that thing?! Damn, that is a huge, beautiful stone, and a Maruka no less. Wow.

Anyway, you convinced me. I was all set to start glopping on the urushi tonight, but I'm going to hold out for the Krylon and painter's tape instead.

To answer another question posted here, I bought my 200 ml can of urushi from a vendor on eBay for around $30. He shipped it from Japan, and the can has Japanese warnings and instructions written all over the label that I can't even begin to read. I bought it to coat the sides and base of my Nakayama Asagi stone, which has some nice chisel marks on the base but definitely does NOT have the "skin" like Tim's Kiita. Still, it's an awesome stone to use and gives a wicked edge, so I thought the urushi would make a nice addition to it.

I've also found what appear to be some vendors selling quality custom carved hardwood boxes for not too much money, and so I might go through with the plan to remove some box labels entirely from the disintegrating cardboard and transfer them permanently to a nice, wooden box. I realize that this might be interpreted as disfiguring or dishonoring the original hone, as the box would be new, but I think these crappy, crumbling cardboard boxes are just so damn ugly that they make me not want to even use the stones I have. Anyway, I will keep you posted.

I'm very much with Tim. Nail-polish and urushi are not the best choices to seal labels: thick, bubbly, shiny ugly. But I do like my hones both clean and usable, and I think we should try to preserve labels. Preferably avoiding non-reversible methods.

My usual routine with labels is this:

- photograph the hone from all sides to mark the position of the labels
- brush off loose dirt
- carefully wash it with washing up liquid (no scrubbing!)
- soak the label(s) in lukewarm running water to take it off
- rinse off the glue from the backside of the label
- dry it on lint-free filtration paper (coffee filters work) pressed between books
- apply several coats of Golden Archival Varnish matte or satin
- thoroughly clean the hone itself
- reapply the label(s) eg. with waterproof acid-free photo glue
- tape-mask the hone leaving a few mm around the label(s)
- apply a final coating of spray varnish

Sometimes I don't like the hassle and just take off and clean the labels and keep them in a stamp album. I do this with very dirty labels too. There are ways to clean old paper, but I'm no expert and hesitate lest I damage them - wet paper is very susceptible to physical stress and cleaning/bleaching agents aren't risk-free either.

In defense of urushi I must say it is none of those things . It is just not a crystal clear coating.

I certainly hope you guys interested in urushi will spend some time researching. It can range between annoying and deadly depending on your sensitivity to urishinol. Doing something silly like spraying it or honing it while uncured... I mean could you imaging inhaling some and having an allergic reaction in your lungs? Some people cannot handle an object weeks after it has cured. Some are non allergic (very few) and a first time exposure will ellicit no reaction the second time most likely will. Keep it off your skin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Tim, holy moley, I thought I had some decent looking hones, but yours are giving me a complex!! Very nice hones, especially the Kiita. Where the heck did you get that thing?! Damn, that is a huge, beautiful stone, and a Maruka no less. Wow.

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Thank you. I actually got that Kiita right off the SRP Classifieds about a year ago, a former member had it for sale. It's been a great stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffE

Anyway, you convinced me. I was all set to start glopping on the urushi tonight, but I'm going to hold out for the Krylon and painter's tape instead.

To answer another question posted here, I bought my 200 ml can of urushi from a vendor on eBay for around $30. He shipped it from Japan, and the can has Japanese warnings and instructions written all over the label that I can't even begin to read. I bought it to coat the sides and base of my Nakayama Asagi stone, which has some nice chisel marks on the base but definitely does NOT have the "skin" like Tim's Kiita. Still, it's an awesome stone to use and gives a wicked edge, so I thought the urushi would make a nice addition to it.

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As Kevin alluded to earlier, Urushi is mildly toxic in that it is the resin of a plant closely related to the Poison Ivy/Oak/Sumac family. I don't have any reaction to it wet, and doubt anybody would once it's cured. But I still wear thin latex gloves when applying it, just because it's so sticky! I applied Urushi to my Japanese stones using a small inexpensive artist's brush, and the Urushi was so thick and sticky it actually pulled out a few of the brush bristles during application! I still think a brush is the way to go, but use a sturdy brush...

Again, don't let these things scare you off from using Urushi for sealing your stones, it's great stuff! I used it to seal two of my stones, and a third stone came already sealed with it. I would do those stones again, in a heartbeat. Modern clear lacquer might do the same job, but wouldn't be nearly as cool or unique, and I don't think the modern stuff is quite as tough and protective. I was just saying that Urushi wouldn't be the best choice for sealing a label on an Escher, I think it would be overkill. But it would seal that label, no doubt about it.

Since most of my hones came without boxes, I keep them in a few foam-padded plastic pistol cases for protection. But a custom hardwood box is a great idea for a special stone. Any good Escher or Japanese natural would fit the "special stone" description.

One last picture pair to illustrate what I meant in my earlier post about being reluctant to put Urushi on only one of my stones. The first picture below is the un-lacquered bottom of a Nakayama Karasu stone that I have, showing the pretty multi-hued reddish "skin" that seems to be associated with the better cuts of Nakayama stones. Some of the black Karasu spots peek through the bottom as well in places. No Urushi applied on this one, even clear acrylic spray would alter it somehow:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...KarasuBase.jpg

The bottom picture is of the bottom of another Nakayama Karasu, a much thinner stone that has been well-coated with Urushi. Because the stone is so thin (maybe 3/8" thick, tops), I feel the Urushi was really necessary for protection. Seeing the red skin uncovered would be nice, but not at risk of the stone's integrity. This is with Urushi:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...Karasu2-02.jpg

I am not trying to be scary. iirc 1 in 5 is non-allergic. I had been around PI and PO enough to think i had some immunity; i just didnt seem to get it anymore. I even tried a few spots on my hand with pure urushi. Nuttin.

My son developed a rash around his ankles once even though I thought I was being very cautious; he was quite prone to it and I was sanding. Eventually I got a good dose when a filtering attempt fell apart. I've never had anything severe; but it is extremely annoying.

You can get neutralizing washes at the pharmacy. Now fully warned-proceed. it is very cool stuff

You can thin it with pure/real turpentine. A vessel to cure it in is best

True enough with gloves you can be safe enough coating a stone. There is hardly a chance to get messy.

Urushi is nearly perfect as a protective finish, about the only thing to harm it is UV, which may be a serious flaw, it's labor intensive. ...Scales, brush handles, boxes... once you got it you may as well slather away. It won't keep forever