In praise of the Guangxi stone

In my wetshaving journey I have abandoned many tools, then gone back to discover it was not the tool but the hand it was in that was insufficient. This applies to Feather blades, MWF, Gems, and a host of other items. Fortunately, I'm a packrat and rarely bin or sell anything, even when I'm not satisfied with it.

So it was with this stone. I had pretty much stopped using it. As I grew more and more fond of coticules, I came to agree with Bart that a perfectly good edge could be attained just by finishing with one and water. And I still believe that is true.

So now I have about 25 razors in random rotation. Some are superb. Some are perfectly fine, but require a little more work and care to get the perfect shave -- just enough to make it a less enjoyable experience.

Fortunately, I keep a honing journal. I went back to look at how I had finished each razor. Almost invariably, the best ones had been finished on the (rarely used) Chinese stone.

I'm going to go through the rotation and refinish the "good enough" blades. I'll post the results here -- it may take a few weeks.

I just ordered a couple of Nakayamas from O_S. I'm still looking forward to using them. Maybe something even better awaits. But, I think if there are still straight users around 100 years down the road, and assuming the Guangxi mine has played out by then, I wouldn't be at all surprised if O_S IV is selling the Japanese and the Chinese stones for around the same price.

I've had the same experience of being dissatisfied with one hone or another and coming back to it months later to find I liked it once I got to know it. I'm also a pack rat. :) The honing journal is a great benefit. I have long made a resolution to keep one but haven't done so on any kind of regular basis. It is a must if a person hones a lot of razors and wants to have any idea of what kind of progress they are making and how their stones are performing. Thanks for reminding me, maybe I will get around to doing it on a regular basis.

I also found that my C12k gave better shaving edges than my coticule.

I strongly disagree that C12k's will ever rival the high end Jnats in price. The Jnats are already rare, so in the future they will be more rare. There are market niches that buy the Jnats - Japanese tool workers, knife people, and razor people. The Jnats are extremely diverse as far as look/skin, where all C12k's look the same. The C12k, though it gives a great edge, is extremely slow - the really expensive Jnats are quicker and give better edges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I also found that my C12k gave better shaving edges than my coticule.

I strongly disagree that C12k's will ever rival the high end Jnats in price. The Jnats are already rare, so in the future they will be more rare. There are market niches that buy the Jnats - Japanese tool workers, knife people, and razor people. The Jnats are extremely diverse as far as look/skin, where all C12k's look the same. The C12k, though it gives a great edge, is extremely slow - the really expensive Jnats are quicker and give better edges.

---

I hope so! Otherwise I just dropped a bundle o' $ for no reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pcb01

I hope so! Otherwise I just dropped a bundle o' $ for no reason.

---

I always get a vicarious thrill out of hearing what people are spending for jnats -- care to elaborate?

Go to oldschoolshaving.net and you'll have an idea.

YOW!!! $5250 for a jnat= never would I pay that no matter if I were worth Billions.

wish i could say the same about my PHIGs. i'm on my third one now first one was cracked so i got a replacement, it was course and was stolen by someone who offered to lap it. third one from a different source which i finally got around to trying on an edge that i really liked but it seemed to make it worse. not sure if i'll keep it or sell it on ebay. i'm ready to give up on them, by now i could have just about got a naniwa 12k.

I noticed a thread where the best place to buy an PHIG was, now don't find it?

I don't care what the price is today or tomorrow, I love my Guangxi and wouldn't sell it even if I have moved on to Arkansas (shhhh. Hush my mouth). I always got remarkable edges and they got better and better as the stone got more broke in.

Ever since I got it I used it as a one stone hone with great success. I was able to finish most razors in 30 minutes or less going from a 800 or 1k. Some would take upwards of two hours though but slow is not always a bad thing. The edges were very hard to compete with. Arkansas stones might have one up though I'm afraid but that's a different thread and I will end with +1 on praise for the Guangxi stone!!

It just goes to show. Some can get lucky enough to get a good one and enjoy it. Some have had bad or mediocre experiences.
I like fast. I like good results as as soon as I can get them. If someone can spare a few hours and get good results, That is a good thing. I would not personally go down the road. No need to at this point.
As newer guys get one and attempt, it may discourage them. JMHO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FAL

YOW!!! $5250 for a jnat= never would I pay that no matter if I were worth Billions.

---

Nice job off necroposting. Now would you please explain how you came up with $5250?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FAL

I noticed a thread where the best place to buy an PHIG was, now don't find it?

---

Woodcraft.

Look here -- Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2" x 1" at Woodcraft.com

I got mine from a guy in Poland on Ebay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FAL

YOW!!! $5250 for a jnat= never would I pay that no matter if I were worth Billions.

---

$5250 is a bargain, look at this Shoubudani LV $229,69 (inc VAT)! Buy Shoubudani lv 4,5 | Buy Japanese Natural Stones | Services EU | JNS Slibe Service DK Kokkeknive Reviews | Japanese Natural Stones :p

Mine from the same guy on Ebay is my best finisher

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JSmith1983

I got mine from a guy in Poland on Ebay.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

Nice job off necroposting. Now would you please explain how you came up with $5250?


Well Utopian, I believe I was looking at an Ebay ad.

Woodcraft.

---

They seem to be a go to, Thanks, I'll try to etiquette adjust my post's, don't want to stink up the place now do I.

I think that Woodcraft has them but not sure what there price is compared to the Ebay guy mentioned or others.

Do they come lapped on at least one side or do you have to lap them before use?

The comma on that site is actually the dollar and cent marker. That stone is actually $229.69

We can buy the larger size Guangxi stone in Australia for about AUD 45 - so you guys in the US should be able to buy one for a bit less. I bought one and can confirm that while it is capable of finishing a razor, it's pretty slow when compared to a modern synthetic like a Shapton 12k ceramic. The Shapton is fast and gives the same results from razor to razor; the Chinese stone is slow and a bit hit and miss depending on the blade.

If you want a good finisher that doesn't demand great patience get a Naniwa or Shapton 12k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maladroit

We can buy the larger size Guangxi stone in Australia for about AUD 45 - so you guys in the US should be able to buy one for a bit less. I bought one and can confirm that while it is capable of finishing a razor, it's pretty slow when compared to a modern synthetic like a Shapton 12k ceramic. The Shapton is fast and gives the same results from razor to razor; the Chinese stone is slow and a bit hit and miss depending on the blade.

If you want a good finisher that doesn't demand great patience get a Naniwa or Shapton 12k.

---

Maladroit, could you elaborate on where?

No worries Frank, Fine Tools have them. Carbatec have also sold them in the past but don't seem to have them in stock anymore.

Mujingfang Natural Water Sharpening Stone - 13,000+ Grit 66 mm Wide - Fine Tools Australia

They're not quite flat and the surface is a little irregular out of the box and therefore needs lapping - I used wet and dry 240, 360 and 600 on a tile. Thereafter you can use your DMT to raise a slurry if desired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maladroit

No worries Frank, Fine Tools have them. Carbatec have also sold them in the past but don't seem to have them in stock anymore.

Mujingfang Natural Water Sharpening Stone - 13,000+ Grit 66 mm Wide - Fine Tools Australia

They're not quite flat and the surface is a little irregular out of the box and therefore need lapping - I used wet and dry 240, 360 and 600 on a tile. Thereafter you can use your DMT to raise a slurry if desired.

---

I recently got that same stone from Fine Tools and after a fair amount of work it is brilliant. Your statement "not quite flat and the surface is a little irregular out of the box" is completely accurate. Mine took a couple of hours on and off using finer and finer grades of WD paper. Regardless the end result is wonderful. As an added exercise I flattened the other side as well because as a natural stone there is a possibility it would be different. It was very different with an alternating grain pattern that was not apparent on the first side. It was my intention to use the "other" side to create a same stone slurry with WD paper and finish on whichever seems the finer of the 2 sides. It is a great stone and it is a slow working stone but not too slow. Once lapped it is a very classy looking rock.

This might be a dumb question but since I am very new at this concept of honing, I have to ask. I bought one of these 12k stones and wanted to know what to do if you don't have a DMT then how should you create slurry? Can you use one of these Nagura stones or are these just for cleaning off stones?

Thx.

I know when I got my 12k I tried lapping it with wet/dry paper and gave up and just bought a DMT, which was well broken in when I finished lapping it. Mine also came with a slurry stone. Not really sure about that slurry stone, but I know my stone was really hard so I am guessing that the slurry would consist of only the slurry stone particles and no clue how those would work. A 8"x3" DMT is a good investment, but if you don't want one of those you could get the DMT cards. They are pretty cheap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

This might be a dumb question but since I am very new at this concept of honing, I have to ask. I bought one of these 12k stones and wanted to know what to do if you don't have a DMT then how should you create slurry? Can you use one of these Nagura stones or are these just for cleaning off stones?

Thx.

---

I believe that slurry stone is quoted as 8000 grit but have nothing other than the internet to rely on. I have the same stone and have used it on my Chinese water stone with good results gradually diluting the slurry with water. I don't rub the stone too hard on the main stone surface.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baldas

I believe that slurry stone is quoted as 8000 grit but have nothing other than the internet to rely on. I have the same stone and have used it on my Chinese water stone with good results gradually diluting the slurry with water. I don't rub the stone too hard on the main stone surface.

---

Yes, I think it is around the 8k mark. I just wondered if creating a slurry on the 12k stone is needed or if it can help an edge better than just using water! I will probably just use water on it.

Thx. for the reply!

I have found as the stone settles in after the initial lapping it responds very well to water only. Very gentle pressure and it works well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

Yes, I think it is around the 8k mark. I just wondered if creating a slurry on the 12k stone is needed or if it can help an edge better than just using water! I will probably just use water on it.

Thx. for the reply!

---

It all depends. Are you using a progression? If you are using it as a finisher in a progression and without a big gap to cover then a slurry may be pointless. If you are using it as a one stone after a bevel set then manipulating a slurry is the only way to cover the gap between a 1k and finishing stone. Manipulating slurry on a natural stone, IMO, is an advanced technique along with natural stones themselves. Not that you can't learn. Anyone can but synthetics are usually recommended for beginners.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

Yes, I think it is around the 8k mark. I just wondered if creating a slurry on the 12k stone is needed or if it can help an edge better than just using water! I will probably just use water on it.

Thx. for the reply!

---

Here's my take on this stone and an example progression. I use naturals exclusively, other than for setting bevels.

8k slurry will give you 8k scratches (or 8k polish).

Diluting a synthetic slurry.. not sure to what benefit. You would have less 8k particles creating scratches, but they will still be creating 8K scratches. Just create a light slurry and wash it off when you're done. The goal of you next stone is to remove ALL those scratches, not remove some and leave some on.

Raise C12K slurry after the 8K one. Diluting that slurry may make sense, but my observations have shown very little difference. It's a YMMV kinda thing.. best to experiment with it.

Switch to water and work it until the blade starts to stick to the hone somewhat. Observe the edge to see if all the previous scratches are gone. If not, clear the stone with a slurry stone, wash it off and have another go at it (still on water).

Depending on the specific stone, finishing under running water may make a lot of sense and may improve the edge tremendously. Do this until the blade starts to stick to the hone real good. Light pressure at this stage.

I use a bit of pressure. People not using pressure on a hard stone such as this has earned this stone a "bad" reputation of being slow. It's not that slow, considering it's natural. Just use a bit of pressure.. hard to say how much, that comes with experience (5, 6, 10 weights of the blade? What about the steel type.. and how much does that blade weigh anyway? [emoji6] ). Only when you get to the last 15-20 strokes, you go as light as possible.

Someone used a phrase "stone settling in". This makes no sense in my view.. the surface is either clear, clogged, or somewhere in between and this changes all the time, depending on what one seeks to accomplish.

I have found that Natural Chinese stones Vary quite a bit from stone to stone and that there are basically 3 different finishing techniques between them that seem to work out depending on the characteristics of your stone

Water and MANY laps
Using them much like an Oil Stone with Soap or Smith's Honing solution (or similar)
Light slurry and Dilution methods


There might be more out types out there but I have not seen them yet !!!

You have to try your stone with your razors and figure out what you have to work with

Remember

"Synthetic hones are an exact science, and Natural stones are a Romance" don't start tat love affair unless you want to do the courting part hehehehe :p

Intresting , mine works best with misty slurry , on plain watter more than 15 laps and the sharpness decrease a bit . Its a sft stone for The PHIG s but , still lot of rubing qith a small jasper stone for slurry , to get a good slurry .
The DMT gives pretty coarse slurry that didnot degrade very easyly in finnes .

I have two, one is hard as glass and behaves like a Translucent Arkansas but faster, the other one is softer and works well with slurry. You have to learn your stones and see what works best for each one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steel

It all depends. Are you using a progression? If you are using it as a finisher in a progression and without a big gap to cover then a slurry may be pointless. If you are using it as a one stone after a bevel set then manipulating a slurry is the only way to cover the gap between a 1k and finishing stone. Manipulating slurry on a natural stone, IMO, is an advanced technique along with natural stones themselves. Not that you can't learn. Anyone can but synthetics are usually recommended for beginners.

---

I would be using it only as a finishing stone or for refreshing an edge. I will be using Norton 1k, 4k/8k, then the 12k. Just wondered if I can get a better 12k edge by using slurry, slurry/water or just water! I was just hoping to raise the finish up some past the 12k mark if possible as a Suehiro 20k is out of my price reach so looking for options to better the edge!

I also have a Coti so would that be used after the 12k or in place of the 12k and after the 8k?

Thx. for the comments everyone!

Try SUPER light pressure for 20 laps or try Smith's Honing Solution to push the edge further.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

I would be using it only as a finishing stone or for refreshing an edge. I will be using Norton 1k, 4k/8k, then the 12k. Just wondered if I can get a better 12k edge by using slurry, slurry/water or just water! I was just hoping to raise the finish up some past the 12k mark if possible as a Suehiro 20k is out of my price reach so looking for options to better the edge!

I also have a Coti so would that be used after the 12k or in place of the 12k and after the 8k?

Thx. for the comments everyone!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

I would be using it only as a finishing stone or for refreshing an edge. I will be using Norton 1k, 4k/8k, then the 12k. Just wondered if I can get a better 12k edge by using slurry, slurry/water or just water! I was just hoping to raise the finish up some past the 12k mark if possible as a Suehiro 20k is out of my price reach so looking for options to better the edge!

I also have a Coti so would that be used after the 12k or in place of the 12k and after the 8k?

Thx. for the comments everyone!

---

You need to figure out your chinese and then figure out your coticule. I would try them both after the 8k Norton, on water.

I'd argue that you don't need anything other than a coti after your 1K, but that would be relative.

C12K in my experience, has been finer than a coticule. On water only and all clogged up provided a finer polish... judging by some other answers in this thread, this is completely subjective, as expected ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

I would be using it only as a finishing stone or for refreshing an edge. I will be using Norton 1k, 4k/8k, then the 12k. Just wondered if I can get a better 12k edge by using slurry, slurry/water or just water! I was just hoping to raise the finish up some past the 12k mark if possible as a Suehiro 20k is out of my price reach so looking for options to better the edge!

I also have a Coti so would that be used after the 12k or in place of the 12k and after the 8k?

Thx. for the comments everyone!

---

When going from an 8k to a Guangxi I would use a light slurry and dilute it to plain water. A coticule would fall in before a Guangxi and in that case I wouldn't use a slurry on the Guangxi but just plain water after a coticule.

As I said, natural stones are an advanced study. You vary the pressure, manipulate slurry, and many other techniques to achieve a remarkable edge. All the hours I have put in on naturals has been well worth it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Srdjan

You need to figure out your chinese and then figure out your coticule. I would try them both after the 8k Norton, on water.

I'd argue that you don't need anything other than a coti after your 1K, but that would be relative.

C12K in my experience, has been finer than a coticule. On water only and all clogged up provided a finer polish... judging by some other answers in this thread, this is completely subjective, as expected ;)

---

That is my main reason for wanting/getting a Coti as I heard it could go from the bevel setter to finish. I like that idea alot!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Steel

When going from an 8k to a Guangxi I would use a light slurry and dilute it to plain water. A coticule would fall in before a Guangxi and in that case I wouldn't use a slurry on the Guangxi but just plain water after a coticule.

As I said, natural stones are an advanced study. You vary the pressure, manipulate slurry, and many other techniques to achieve a remarkable edge. All the hours I have put in on naturals has been well worth it!

---

Okay, I guess I need to get some Gold Dollars and just play! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirMike

That is my main reason for wanting/getting a Coti as I heard it could go from the bevel setter to finish. I like that idea alot!



Okay, I guess I need to get some Gold Dollars and just play! :)

---

Spring for a better quality, vintage 5/8... I'd go for a straight edge, straight spine (no smileys yet). Will cost cca $30, but you'll have a hone-ready blade... which GDs will not be in most cases.

When you get more experienced, then you can get a few hones in 3-figure grit range and a few GDs to play with. [emoji23]

My practice and hone testing razor is a TR Cadman Bengall. Great steel that will take a great edge.