stainless steel

is there anyone available to offer up some advice about honing stainless steel (other than, don't do it!)

this is really ridiculous. it's a dovo stainless steel and it's making me want to throw my naniwas against the wall!

it was quite dull to begin with, but not an old razor. it's giving me a heck of a time.

also, regarding the pyramid method. after setting the bevel with a 1k or 2k - does one jump to the 5k and work the pyramid between the 5k and 8k OR does one work the pyramid between the 2k and 5k - dry rinse repeat with the 5k to 8k?

thanks in advance
jason

have you checked if the razor shaves hair after the 1k? FRom your description it seems like you have not set the bevel right.
I have not honed stainless Dovo yet, but I have honed other stainless and to me there was no difference from carbon steel.

i must not be doing something right. i'll try it again.
thanks
jason

Jason, as many experienced honers have noted the bevel setting is the foundation of the honing process. Are you getting a positive TNT in the bevel setting process ? Once that is achieved you needn't use it again but begin to rely on the TPT and shaving hair on the arm or leg. Once the razor is keen enough to achieve a positive result with those tests begin the pyramid.

Lynn has good results with the 5/8 and I expect you will too if you are using adequate technique. The pyramid may have to be repeated. Check out this vid of Lynn honing here. :gl:

not KNOWING the feel of the TNT or TPT I'm not sure it's right. i realize that may seems silly, but hey. i forgot about the TNT, honestly, but did use the TPT. someone described the TPT as tickling...i didn't get that all. so i'm not sure what that is supposed to feel like. with regard to shaving hair...affirmative. i certainly feel the razors could be sharper, but i have no hair on either arm now. so, maybe i did okay. also, i've only honed 6 so far and the fact that i can get them as sharp as i did makes me feel okay. i just wish i could acheive the result a little faster. in time and with more questions i suppose.

I do thank all of you. having never really been on a forum - you guys are truly very helpful folks. cuttin' the learnin'curve fer the newbies...gracias.

jsbutts

Stainless steel = EVIL... RUN AWAY!!!!

I still hate the idea of honing a SS blade... I think I'd send it out if I had one ... But thats me :p

My test for a set bevel after the 1k is that the razor can shave arm hair at skin level. Until it can do that, I dont move off the 1k.

As Jimmy says, you really need to get the bevel set right otherwise you'll end up with a nicely polished dull edge!

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by jsbutts

not KNOWING the feel of the TNT or TPT I'm not sure it's right. i realize that may seems silly, but hey. i forgot about the TNT, honestly, but did use the TPT. someone described the TPT as tickling...i didn't get that all. so i'm not sure what that is supposed to feel like. with regard to shaving hair...affirmative. i certainly feel the razors could be sharper, but i have no hair on either arm now. so, maybe i did okay. also, i've only honed 6 so far and the fact that i can get them as sharp as i did makes me feel okay. i just wish i could acheive the result a little faster. in time and with more questions i suppose.

I do thank all of you. having never really been on a forum - you guys are truly very helpful folks. cuttin' the learnin'curve fer the newbies...gracias.

jsbutts

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With the TNT a dull blade will skate across the nail as if it were glare ice. As an edge develops keenness it will pull as it goes across the nail. A well set bevel will feel as if it is digging in as you pull it across (lightly with only the weight of the blade). Using the TNT it may feel sharp for parts of the blade but dull for other portions. It may feel rough. Good to have a microscope or eye loupe to check the quality of the edge at that point. When it is uniformly smooth and digging in your ready to check with the arm/leg hair and the TPT.

For the TPT , as Randydance suggested to me a while back, using a known sharp edge such as a new DE or single edge blade will give you the idea on how it should feel. As in the TNT on a dull edge your thumb pad will skate along the edge. With a keen edge it will catch, or feel as if it wants to dig in. Getting to know these tests will help cut the time it takes to hone an edge as you'll have a better idea where you are as you are progressing.

My Dovo stainless will take a tad more time than carbon steel but nothing that drastic. I have some hard carbon steel that takes way more time to hone than stainless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jsbutts

is there anyone available to offer up some advice about honing stainless steel (other than, don't do it!)

this is really ridiculous. it's a dovo stainless steel and it's making me want to throw my naniwas against the wall!

it was quite dull to begin with, but not an old razor. it's giving me a heck of a time.

also, regarding the pyramid method. after setting the bevel with a 1k or 2k - does one jump to the 5k and work the pyramid between the 5k and 8k OR does one work the pyramid between the 2k and 5k - dry rinse repeat with the 5k to 8k?

thanks in advance
jason

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Jason you never said exactly what is the problem?
giving you heck of a time? what is the exact your problem then we can help you more.
GL
example blade doesn't get sharp enough?
anything else. so on

First you should buy a small microscope from Radioshack or Amazon.com. They help a lot, you can check the bevel at 1k and see if you're done or not.

when at the 1k level you should hone until ALL of the edge is beveled from heel to toe of the razor, the microscope comes in hand for this. Are you Naniwa stones lapped also? They should be flattened before you use them.
Once the bevel looks uniform and shaves your arms well, ONLY then do you move up in grit ranges. A 12k stone is there to finish the edge and that's it, no sharpening is needed at this level of hone.

As you move up from 1k all of the nexts hones just sharpen the bevel you set and replace their scratch pattern over the old 1k pattern. Again this is where a microscope is handy, you can see where your hone is missing the blade and adjust your stroke for that.

You basically just repeat this process all the way up the hones. I only use about 20 strokes on a 12K naniwa and then the razor is done, there's no need to be trying to sharpen on that hone.

SS blades are just harder to remove steel but they're bascially the same to hone, it just takes more time on 1k level. A short cut you can do is use tape on the spine for SS.

Also a question: why are you trying to hone when you're new here and may not know how to shave well with a straight razor (That takes 6 months of practice a lone, never mind honing edges)? I would send the blade out and practice with stropping and shaving over honing for a while until you can shave like a pro and strop without dulling razors. Hopefully our advice helps, welcome to the most addictive website ever!

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Originally Posted by Disburden

SS blades are just harder to remove steel but they're bascially the same to hone, it just takes more time on 1k level. A short cut you can do is use tape on the spine for SS.

Also a question: why are you trying to hone when you're new here and may not know how to shave well with a straight razor (That takes 6 months of practice a lone, never mind honing edges)? I would send the blade out and practice with stropping and shaving over honing for a while until you can shave like a pro and strop without dulling razors. Hopefully our advice helps, welcome to the most addictive website ever!

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May I ask if using tape is then required for all subsequent honings and touch ups (maintaining a constant bevel, etc.)? I just acquired my first hone and am completely in the fact-finding/experimenting stage, so please don't mind the questions...:angel:
A related comment: at this stage, I'm shaving consistently well and can recognize honing quality based mostly on shaving quality and smoothness. I use the microscope to see what's going on with the edge/bevel, but it is much harder to me to calibrate my thumbpad or thumbnail to determine what needs to be done next. I've had some of my best shaves on razors that did not seem particularly sharp by TPT or TNT, and forget about the HHT - never worked for me, even with freshly honed razors from experts. So, for me, this is the hardest part. Hope this isn't too far off the OP 's topic.

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Originally Posted by Woodash

May I ask if using tape is then required for all subsequent honings and touch ups (maintaining a constant bevel, etc.)? I just acquired my first hone and am completely in the fact-finding/experimenting stage, so please don't mind the questions...:angel:
A related comment: at this stage, I'm shaving consistently well and can recognize honing quality based mostly on shaving quality and smoothness. I use the microscope to see what's going on with the edge/bevel, but it is much harder to me to calibrate my thumbpad or thumbnail to determine what needs to be done next. I've had some of my best shaves on razors that did not seem particularly sharp by TPT or TNT, and forget about the HHT - never worked for me, even with freshly honed razors from experts. So, for me, this is the hardest part. Hope this isn't too far off the OP 's topic.

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if your blade have been used 3 layers of tape then while you strop you don't need. strop compensate (now it depends of course thickness of the tape. Genarally speaking i am talking about black electric tape). in case you are going to use any hones you have to match exact thickness if not then you will not sharpen the edge.
hope this helps.

Like Sham said you will need to use the same amount of tape everytime you hone the razor or touch it up. This also goes for stropping on pastes but not normal stropping. Have fun!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodash

May I ask if using tape is then required for all subsequent honings and touch ups (maintaining a constant bevel, etc.)? I just acquired my first hone and am completely in the fact-finding/experimenting stage, so please don't mind the questions...:angel:
A related comment: at this stage, I'm shaving consistently well and can recognize honing quality based mostly on shaving quality and smoothness. I use the microscope to see what's going on with the edge/bevel, but it is much harder to me to calibrate my thumbpad or thumbnail to determine what needs to be done next. I've had some of my best shaves on razors that did not seem particularly sharp by TPT or TNT, and forget about the HHT - never worked for me, even with freshly honed razors from experts. So, for me, this is the hardest part. Hope this isn't too far off the OP 's topic.

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Welcome to SRP. Have you gone to the SRP Wiki ? See the link below in my sig line for info on honing, hones and just about anything straight razor shave related. If you don't find what you are looking for there by all means post your questions.

The TNT is only used to determine that the bevel is set to the point where the razor is keen enough to 'pull' when run across a moist thumbnail with the weight of the blade. No pressure. Once it does that from heel to point the TNT is no longer used on that razor.

If you have a new DE blade you can get the feel of the TPT with that. Moistened thumb pad and holding the razor's spine in the opposite hand lightly touch the thumb pad to the edge from heel to point. A sharp edge will grab the pad. A dull one will have the pad slide along. There are gradients that are learned as you gain experience with these tests. Again no pressure.

The HHT is for later. I get good shaves with razors that do not pass HHT and with razors that do. It is always nice to pass but not necessary for a close and smooth shave IME. :gl:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Welcome to SRP. Have you gone to the SRP Wiki ? See the link below in my sig line for info on honing, hones and just about anything straight razor shave related. If you don't find what you are looking for there by all means post your questions.

The TNT is only used to determine that the bevel is set to the point where the razor is keen enough to 'pull' when run across a moist thumbnail with the weight of the blade. No pressure. Once it does that from heel to point the TNT is no longer used on that razor.

If you have a new DE blade you can get the feel of the TPT with that. Moistened thumb pad and holding the razor's spine in the opposite hand lightly touch the thumb pad to the edge from heel to point. A sharp edge will grab the pad. A dull one will have the pad slide along. There are gradients that are learned as you gain experience with these tests. Again no pressure.

The HHT is for later. I get good shaves with razors that do not pass HHT and with razors that do. It is always nice to pass but not necessary for a close and smooth shave IME. :gl:

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Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I've been all over the Wiki. Great resource, however; there is no substitute for experience. For example, as I said, one of the most difficult things - for me - is to have some accurate tactile feedback from the blade. I've had razors come back from some very well-regarded honemeisters that shave beautifully, but don't pass the HHT at all - not even close (maybe it's my hair???). I typically do not feel the 'grabbing of the thumbpad' or the 'pulling on the thumbnail' with these same well-honed razors, so there is some tactile sense that I am missing. When I hone some 'test' razors, I have to shave with them and/or view the edge with a microscope to get an idea of what's needed next. Hopefully, my other senses will become more refined over time...

I just recently got a Frederick Reynolds wedge on the cheap that I am playing around with. That's a little more ambitious - we'll see where that goes...

Thanks for the info all, but I'm afraid I've hijacked here enough and shall retreat for now....

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

Stainless steel = EVIL... RUN AWAY!!!!

I still hate the idea of honing a SS blade... I think I'd send it out if I had one ... But thats me :p

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Lies!!!! :D

Seriously, stainless blades shouldn't be an issue. The hardest I've come across is a RW in s30v, but even that gave in.

It's a bit of a myth that they're harder to hone. They may take a couple more strokes, but that's about it.