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Ok, I have finally gotten my razor to shave ready:), therefore I think I learned how to hone properly. I'm not gonna lie it took some time to learn. I've been using to layers of tape when honing. I'm doing that to preserve the spine. Now what would you suggest should I keep doing the same thing or change my technique (with out the tape) and why?
Gregory
Unless you ae taping to preserve a design, finish or something like that, it is entirely personal preference.
I use one layer to prevent spine wear but if the razor is old and has a lot of wear I may need more tape. This help sets an apropriate bevel again when there's excessive wear.
Thank you guys. Next step is to try single tape ans see how that will place my bevel.
I usually use one layer of tape on any razor that has been hollow ground, if it is a wedge start out with four and quite possibly add more if needed.
Thanks for a great advise, I'm actually in process of restoring a wedge razor and thought I will do the same technique as with my hollows. There is a lot more for me to learn about honing
Gregory
On old wedges with noticeable hone wear on the spine I use 3 layers of tape to help bring the bevel angle closer to the original. On full hollow ground razors I use 1 layer to prevent any additional hone wear on the spine. Just personal preference.
Just make sure you remember (or better yet, take note of) whether you taped or not, and how many layers. That way, when you go to refresh the edge, you'll be working on the same angle.
I've made the mistake of forgetting whether I've taped or not.
Sure, it's not an issue if you only have one or two razors. But if, like most of us, you start to accumulate razors, it can become a real problem.
Some people just make a policy of either always taping with one layer, or never taping... just so they don't have to keep track.
Mike
I only tape when setting a bevel. I set it than remove the tape and "reset" without tape. Generally this saves a ton of wear and allows for non tape finishing.
Granted each razor is different and a few have had so much spine wear that I keep that tapped edge going the full hone job.
I use one layer of tape on all my razors, just to prevent hone wear and it also keeps the bevels small. I actually honed a wedge over the weekend that needed two layers of tape, but thats the first time thats happened.
I've got a little book I keep with all the razors I have in it, and I make a note of how many layers of tape I've used in there..! Thats saved me some grief lol..! :D
I personally don't use tape except on a custom or any razor where the look of the blade is important.
Take Care,
Richard
Great idea. I don't use tape anymore but I am trying to discipline myself to record the results of the marker test on each blade (so I don't have to repeat it to figure out the proper stroke) and which hones I've used on that particular razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubear
I'm not much of a fan of taping. Just a few razors I have to preserve the fancywork or gold wash on the spine and a couple with double bevels that really need the tape.
Thanks for great advises. I just cant imagine my self not using any tape to hone, a specially after spending 10 hours of hand sanding on restoration to put an extra line on a spine. I guess my goal is to completely preserve the craftsmanship of the razor.
There is an interesting duality here - preserving the craftsmanship of a razor with tape and yet doing a restoration on it... Hone wear is a normal part of razors, as is aging. Not saying there is a right or wrong, it's just interesting.
On restored blades with heavy grinds, I'd tape too.
There is a very useful Excel sheet over at coticule.be. It is part of an article about honing wedges that you might find useful.
In many ways hone wear is preserving the craftsmanship of the razor. It was designed to wear. But like Randy I feel there is an adequate wear of most of my vintage blades. But eventually it should come off to keep proportion.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrEgZteR
I would recommend you stay with one layer(or what works) on your shavers until you have sharpened them quite a few times. It wont hurt much to keep aiming for a sharper result-honing every week for instance whether it needs it or not. Reason I think most new sharpeners can/will improve the accuracy of their bevels overtime. thus get sharper, better lasting edges.
Later you may want to take the tape off. Might work *:w
I believe you are right on how the razors where made and what was expected of them. I guess I'm gonna take it one step at a time and who knows maybe later on I will be ok with hone wear.
Gregory
What kevint said is what I did for many razors. Still do with some of them but it took a year for me to be confident enough that I wasn't going to hurt anything honing without tape. By all means use it until you feel you no longer need it. As long as you are not honing other peoples razors only you will be concerned with wear at the spine and once you know how to hone it will be minimal IME.
That makes a lot of sense Jimmy, I have previously tried to hone with out tape and the wear at the spine was no where near minimal. I blame it on my inexperience, I have also send a razor to be professionally honed and the the person put an excellent edge on it, and the hone wear almost not noticeable. So I have a long way to go :D
Gregory
I only tape my Zowada razors, the thickness of the spine is set such that the tape is accounted for on the angle and it preserves the Damascus pattern.
Everything else is no tape.
I always love to throw a wrinkle in these conversations about tape no tape Muhahahaha
FWIW I tape every razor 1 layer of 3m, mine and everyone else's unless they ask for different... That is besides the point though
The stone, save the stone man LOL
Besides the spine wear what about those hugely expensive stones that you are wearing out twice as fast??? tape slides metal wears...
:):) I can see Jimmy re-thinking the whole tape issue now hehehehe
thank you, Glen!!!!!!!!!!
This is the reason why I wanted to use tape use one layer now. Save those hones!!!!!!!:y
I'm trying to think about this, and it doesn't make sense. sorry, its you not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by DwarvenChef
if you reset the bevel without tape, aren't you just removing metal from the shoulders of the bevel as well as the spine?
You said: "I have finally gotten my razor to shave ready:),"Quote:
Originally Posted by GrEgZteR
So what ever you are doing works... stick with it for a while.
Refresh the edge with the same amount of tape and same
hone you last used.
It is entirely up to you as guided by your personal shave test.
For me any hone coarser than 1K gets tape on the spine.
When switching to or honing on a 1K hone I remove the tape
for the last ten or 20 hone strokes on the 1K to set the final
bevel and do not use tape on my 4K/8k/12K hones.
This guideline (not a rule) seems to strike a good balance and
uses a fast enough hone to set the bevel for the finer hones that
are gentler on the spine.
Once correctly honed I find that all I need is my 12K and
a rare visit to my Norton 4k/8k combo to refresh the edge.
i.e. no tape.
Hi,
I'm just starting to to hone my own razors at I acquire them. I prefer no tape. but have used tape on an wedge with lots of wear. For me I'm looking to get a working edge with the least trouble.
I read somewhere, I think in the wiki here, that you can make some passes on an 8000 hone to see how much work you have to do by looking for the shiny line you just made with the 8000.
- Mike
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassguy
The strategy to which you were replying is used when a lot of work needs to be done on the edge. By taping the spine during most of the steel removal at the edge, the spine (and Glen's hone:)) is protected. When the edge looks good and the bevel is almost entirely set, the tape is removed for final bevel setting. At this point, as you speculated, most of the steel removal is at the shoulder of the taped bevel, but it takes very little to convert a taped bevel to an untaped bevel because the angular difference is so slight.
I'm with utopian and tom, but I might tape with a 1k hone, if there were alot of work required, but at that rate I'd be wishing I had a more coarse hone and would certainly tape.
As you hone with a coarse hone and tape the tape does wear, and depending on how fast it wears you either work your way towards no tape and a flat bevel, or possibly no tape and a convex bevel. In the end if I dont want a double bevel I work towards not taping, because otherwise between wearing tape and retaping you are likely to end up with a double bevel. not that that's a bad thing.
anywho.. yes, once you get to finishing spine wear is minimal, and if you can finish with a single bevel, and no tape, it just feels better to me.
Perhaps it is faux pax to ask a question on someone else's thread but, with regards to taping, does anyone know what the optimal bevel angle is? Can one really have too little angle and should most razors with significant hone wear be taped in order to keep sharp?
There is an easy way to avoid this. I only tape when I'm asked to do so, but when I tape, I use a lot of tape. That is, I replace tape frequently and when I am done setting the bevel, I replace the tape again and do at least 10 strokes. I then move up to 2k and when I'm done with that, I replace the tape and do 10 strokes with the fresh tape. I always finish on the hone with fresh tape to ensure that the taped angle is accurate. On the higher grits, I may stay with one piece of tape for two steps but that's because the number of strokes are lower and the pressure is lighter. I of course replace the tape before using the final finishing hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by ezpz
Also, I use black tape from 1k to 2k, brown tape for 3k to 5k, and red tape from 8k to final finisher. Don't let anyone fool you. The colors matter!:D
The optimal bevel depends on your face and the steel itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by abiank350
In general just go with the natural bevel angle.
Having said that there is a lot of latitude and spine wear must
be astounding for the angle to be beyond use.
You can measure and tinker or just hone the razor to
the natural angle. After shave testing a couple times
at the natural angle consider honing with one, two or
three layers of tape and shave test each.