Coticule...wow.

Printable View

07-16-2010, 02:06 AM
QuinnFlint

Coticule...wow.

Just got my first coticule today from SRD (select grade on slate--no BBW backing--250mm x 50mm). Used the dilucot/unicot methods on Welcome to Coticule.be - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone. I thought those techniques might be difficult to employ or too advanced/technical, but...goodness.

As a test run, I used a Germania Cutlery "Pathfinder" which has managed to avoid shave-readiness despite assiduous progressions on Nortons, DMTs, Swatys and pasted/non-pasted strops.

That hopelessly dull razor went from bevel-setting to finishing on the coticule in about 1/2 an hour, then got 120 total laps on linen/horsehide, and now it passes the HHT like nothing I've seen. I've never gotten a razor to that point before.

As a relative newcomer to honing, I have to strongly second the recommendations of the SRP pros who have advocated coticule-only honing. The stones seem expensive, but when I add up the cost of the other hones/strops/pastes I've used to try to get the same result, it would have been considerably cheaper to start with a coticule.

Can't wait to get ready for work tomorrow morning! :)
07-16-2010, 02:09 AM
zib

That's pretty amazing results for your first time using a Coticule. Setting a bevel on a Coticule is exceedingly difficult even for more the more experienced...
07-16-2010, 02:15 AM
holli4pirating

I'm glad you found success on the coticule. They certainly can be used with success if you are willing to take the time to experiment with and learn the one you get.

I don't want to detract from that at all, but something to consider - all honing moves you towards your bevel, so everything you did before you started on the coticule helped. Had you started on the coticule and then gone to the synthetics. you would likely be talking about how difficult the coti was and how easy the synthetics were. When a razor needs work, there is nothing to do but put in whatever work it takes.
07-16-2010, 02:29 AM
BladeRunner001

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

Just got my first coticule today from SRD (select grade on slate--no BBW backing--250mm x 50mm). Used the dilucot/unicot methods on Welcome to Coticule.be - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone. I thought those techniques might be difficult to employ or too advanced/technical, but...goodness.

As a test run, I used a Germania Cutlery "Pathfinder" which has managed to avoid shave-readiness despite assiduous progressions on Nortons, DMTs, Swatys and pasted/non-pasted strops.

That hopelessly dull razor went from bevel-setting to finishing on the coticule in about 1/2 an hour, then got 120 total laps on linen/horsehide, and now it passes the HHT like nothing I've seen. I've never gotten a razor to that point before.

As a relative newcomer to honing, I have to strongly second the recommendations of the SRP pros who have advocated coticule-only honing. The stones seem expensive, but when I add up the cost of the other hones/strops/pastes I've used to try to get the same result, it would have been considerably cheaper to start with a coticule.

Can't wait to get ready for work tomorrow morning! :)

That is great...I had a very similar experience with a natural BBW/Yellow combo stone (also naturally fused) last weekend. After creating the slurry, I proceeded to take my 5/8, full hollow Respecto (which was starting to pull & tug a bit...rough shaves) through the rigors of the unicot method and the edge on this thing came to life.

However, I also have to agree with Dylan (Holli4pirating) here. My bevel was already set on a 1K Naniwa (and honed in progression with the 5K, 8K and 12K Naniwas)...so, a keen edge on a coticule may have been easier to achieve because of this.

Nonetheless, I will be getting a dull Dubl Duck and experiment a bit from scratch using the coti.

As some wise man once said: it's better to be lucky than good. I'd like to consider myself lucky and hope that this streak will continue...

Now, if I could only get my hands on a decent Escher that will not break the bank :).

Thanks for sharing your experience. :)
07-16-2010, 02:55 AM
QuinnFlint

Quote:

I don't want to detract from that at all, but something to consider - all honing moves you towards your bevel, so everything you did before you started on the coticule helped. Had you started on the coticule and then gone to the synthetics. you would likely be talking about how difficult the coti was and how easy the synthetics were. When a razor needs work, there is nothing to do but put in whatever work it takes.

Yeah, you absolutely have a point that I hadn't completely considered--the bevel was likely almost there, and it may have just been certain steps of the unicot method (edge-refining steps--maybe just the taping) that brought things to a head. Maybe that method could be employed on a progression through synthetics with similar results.

Maybe it comes down to having a new toy, or being able to get so many grits out of the same stone, or just the romance of the coticule--I'm pleased, though. I won't liquidate my other hones just yet, but based on the handful of razors I've put to it tonight, the coti has lived up to the hype so far.

Thanks for all the feedback! These forums have taught me everything from how to lather up and avoid becoming an accidental Van Gogh all the way to making ebay junk shave-ready...for free! It's like I hacked into an online degree program; so thanks.

:medvl:
07-16-2010, 02:58 AM
QuinnFlint

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Now, if I could only get my hands on a decent Escher that will not break the bank :).

For real. :boohoo:

I feel your pain.
07-16-2010, 03:26 AM
holli4pirating

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

For real. :boohoo:

I feel your pain.

Try looking for a vintage Thuringian. Escher is just a brand of Thuringian, and while some Eschers may be higher quality, they also command much higher prices. Also, you never know, a vintage Thuringian may be an Escher that lost the label...
07-16-2010, 09:03 AM
Kees

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeRunner001

Now, if I could only get my hands on a decent Escher that will not break the bank :).

Taking a razor to a Cr2O3 pasted strop after the coticule achieves very similar results IME.
07-16-2010, 01:12 PM
BladeRunner001

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Taking a razor to a Cr2O3 pasted strop after the coticule achieves very similar results IME.

Hmmm. That is good to know...thanks for the info :). Then, I am set. Who wants a $700 Escher?

Thanks Kees
08-31-2010, 02:22 PM
QuinnFlint

Quote:

Try looking for a vintage Thuringian. Escher is just a brand of Thuringian, and while some Eschers may be higher quality, they also command much higher prices.

Thanks for the advice--just got mainaman's mueller Thuringian from the classifieds yesterday. Tried it out with an Eskiltuna frameback that was sharp but tugging a little; after the Thuringian it was sharp and comfy and wonderful!
08-31-2010, 10:22 PM
holli4pirating

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

Thanks for the advice--just got mainaman's mueller Thuringian from the classifieds yesterday. Tried it out with an Eskiltuna frameback that was sharp but tugging a little; after the Thuringian it was sharp and comfy and wonderful!

Glad to hear about your success. Though I don't think the Mueller Thurries are the same as the vintage ones, it just goes to show that you can get a great shave off a hone in the 8-10k range!
09-01-2010, 01:42 PM
QuinnFlint

Yeah, I can't quite spring for a vintage yet, but I seem to be getting your basic Thuringian finish off the Mueller, and I'm happy with that...for now.

Oh god, when will the thirst for a better hone be quenched???
09-01-2010, 02:09 PM
Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

Taking a razor to a Cr2O3 pasted strop after the coticule achieves very similar results IME.

So this is why I like my Escher so much!!! :)

Thanks,

Lynn
09-01-2010, 02:10 PM
hi_bud_gl

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

Oh god, when will the thirst for a better hone be quenched???

Never it is called HAD.
gl
09-01-2010, 02:13 PM
QuinnFlint

Quote:

Never it is called HAD.
gl

Argh...I'm becoming all too familiar. And Lynn, if you feel like trading in your Escher for a pasted strop, I can hook you up--let me know. :)
09-03-2010, 01:28 PM
Disburden

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

For real. :boohoo:

I feel your pain.

Good luck, mine cost me 500.00$ LOL :)

Your best best is thrift shops and antique places that may be ignorant in the field of old fashioned wet shaving.
09-12-2010, 01:35 PM
QuinnFlint

Quote:

I am currently enrolled in Dr. Drew's HAD Rehab...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Probably not as many scantily-clad B-list starlets in that rehab center, huh? I'm picturing a somewhat more "grizzled" clientele.
09-12-2010, 03:20 PM
AlanII

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinnFlint

Probably not as many scantily-clad B-list starlets in that rehab center, huh? I'm picturing a somewhat more "grizzled" clientele.

Well shaved, though.
09-12-2010, 04:46 PM
gssixgun

Change of mind ????

I have read your posts since this great wondrous Colticule is the best thread here Quinn and just would like to point out to other Newbs to this sport of honing that sometimes what you think at first changes drastically as you delve deeper into honing...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...el-repair.html

http://straightrazorpalace.com/655864-post11.html

I mean absolutely no disrespect Quinn but this thread might help other Newbs realize that honing is a mountain to climb....the higher you go the more you see.... (damn that was rather poetic huh :D)

Keep climbing
09-13-2010, 02:33 PM
QuinnFlint

change of mind in progress...perhaps...I think

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

...sometimes what you think at first changes drastically as you delve deeper into honing...

Yes--eloquently stated, and quite lovely. :)

No disrespect taken. I was thinking I should post a follow-up here as I began to see that I was contradicting this post in other threads. People who have been doing this stuff for a long time actually know what they're talking about--whodathunkit????

So, yeah, after a long weekend of honing (wife out of town--all honing all the time!!! Yes, I'm the most boring temporary bachelor ever), I ended up doing almost everything on the Naniwa 2K (if necessary), Norton 4K, Norton 8K, and did some finishing on the Thuri and my new Panama barber hone (which I love). Then CrO2, then leather. Hanging hairs commit Hari-Kari when they see these edges approach.

I *hate* to admit it, but by yesterday afternoon the coticule looked on, sad and lonely, from across the kitchen, and saw no action.

One thing I will say about the coticule as a Newbie hone is that I learned a lot about honing in general by trying to perfect the unicot and dilucot methods. It seems like almost everything I learned on the coti carries over in some way to other stones. And I'm certain it will see some use once I get through the initial "playing with my new toys" phase.

So, the main thing I have learned at this point is that I don't know enough about honing to recommend a coticule as a first Newbie hone, but I also don't know enough to not recommend it either.

Hence my new, gssixgun-inspired signature line. And thanks for linking those other threads to this one.
09-13-2010, 02:53 PM
gssixgun

I can tell you one thing for sure, you won't stay a Newb for long, you have already learned the most important lesson in honing and in fact Razors... "We all have to keep learning" :) There seems to be an endless supply of challenges in this hobby if you want to take them on...
It really is interesting that you can just shave if you want, or you can dig ever deeper into the mysteries out there...

Welcome to the dig :D now get back to the Coti and figure that one out LOL
09-13-2010, 03:55 PM
hi_bud_gl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

So this is why I like my Escher so much!!! :) Thanks, Lynn

me toooo
09-13-2010, 07:44 PM
technika1

I was lucky enough to pick up a vintage coti/bbw a few weeks ago, and using the dilucot method, seem to be getting some real good results, still learning on this stone though, but i find it qucker than going through my japanese waterstones, i wish i actually got a coti first, then went down the waterstone honing path, as i think it would have helped a bit more that way, though using different stones and combinations is great fun, and you always get to the point you want, a shave ready, although some ways tend to take me ages, dont care as i enjoy it, and the more you do, the better you get:beer1:
09-14-2010, 02:27 PM
QuinnFlint

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Welcome to the dig :D now get back to the Coti and figure that one out LOL

Oh, I'm in the dig all right...just deep enough where I'd rather keep digging than climb out. And yeah, that's what's really got me hooked

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

There seems to be an endless supply of challenges in this hobby if you want to take them on...
It really is interesting that you can just shave if you want, or you can dig ever deeper into the mysteries out there...

Yes! That's what hooked me--there's the history angle (absolutely amazes me that in 1875 some guy shaved his face with the same John Engstrom frameback I used--135 years later--this morning), there's the restoring angle, the honing, the stropping...oh yeah, and you can shave with them. And you could spend a lifetime exploring any one of those aspects. Pretty cool stuff.

And then I stumbled upon the "how to" about home forging. (don't do it, Quinn--turn back before you reach the point of no return!)

Anyhoo, it appears I'm in for the long haul, and I appreciate the senior members' being tolerant of my Newbie foolishness and pointing me in some good directions.