Good morning
I am looking to buy one of the following stones:
1. Kita Nashiji Suita stone
2. Nakayama Maruichi stone
3. HGAL Japanese stones classification
Which brand is the best ?
Thank you
Good morning
I am looking to buy one of the following stones:
1. Kita Nashiji Suita stone
2. Nakayama Maruichi stone
3. HGAL Japanese stones classification
Which brand is the best ?
Thank you
I dont know what the third item is you mention, but the other two are Japanese natural stones, which means they will be pretty variable from stone to stone to start with. Some are faster cutters than others, some work better with slurry, others work better without, and it takes a little time to work out how to get the best from your stone.
A lot of guys get two or three of the same stone from the store, and then try them all out and send back the two they liked least.
The other consideration is what do you want the stone for? Sharpening? Polishing? An all in one coticule type stone? There may be another stone out there that meets your needs better.
Also, how much honing experience do you have? Not that you shouldnt get one of those hones, but thats a lot of money to spend if you're new to honing and you may find that synthetic hones work better for you at the start as they are more consistent and predictable.
1 and 2 you have to test and see , all stones have their own character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unitouch
#3. this is not a stone, its a system that someone designed to rate stones ,that is not used by any other reputable seller, and imo is not reliable at all.
If it's the guy that I think it is (330mate?) I'd advise to stay away from his stones, I have heard very few people being happy with what they got from him.
I think may be a few clarifications are in order to avoid confusion.
Nashiji is a term used to indicate that the stone has spotted appearance like pear skin, which is what Nashiji means.
Maruichi is a brand name, or one of the brand names, of the Japanese family that used to have mining rights for the Nakayama mine. I would not buy much into stamps, a hands on test is always best if possible.
Aslo in light of what Stu said above, Japanese nat stones can take time to learn how to use properly.
In one way or another each of your prospects are suspect. The first one only provided 3 buzz words? must be a humble soul. :)
The second / stamps who needs em. Make your own maruichi stamp if it's that important to you ;)
The third; you cannot expect thousand dollar perfection for 100usd.
While only indirectly related to what you ask; what else do you have for sharpening?
(while suita isnt such a buzz word the other two do seem to be open to liberal interpretation)
If you contact a reputable seller and ask a comparable question, the response you will get will be...
"For what purpose do you want the stone?"
"What is your honing experience?"
"What other hones do you have?"
and
"How much money do you have?"
:D
If you really want the best advice on picking a hone, you'll need to provide us with more information.
Your question is which brand is best ? but you only give one "brand" ie #2Quote:
Originally Posted by Unitouch
Hatanaka san's stones are highly respected as a brand because of their general quality the others are not a brand. Even so they will very in their characteristics.
A kiita suita may or may not be a finishing stone. What is your goal ? Will the seller let you try it for your purpose & refund or replace ?
As a famous person said "You must research this well" :)
Since you posted this question in the Beginners forum, I will assume you have limited experience in honing razors. If this is correct, a natural Japanese hone may not be the best hone to start with. I would recommend starting out with a synthetic hone such as the Naniwa line of hones. Even with synthetics hones, they will have different characteristics and you will need to discover which ones you prefer.
If you have your mind set on purchasing a natural stone, it is best if you can try it first before buying. If that is not an option, then I would highly recommend purchasing from a reputable seller who will work with you on selecting a hone that will suit your needs.
If you do a search, there is a lot of good information available on this site regarding natural Japanese hones. Also, there is good information on So's site Japan Tool. Before you start spending money, make sure you know what you are getting.
Good luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
This is true, especially with So at Japan Tool. You need to know what you want, and be prepared to spend a small fortune....
So has stones for almost any pocket.
Speaking of pockets- look there first- for pocket size stones. The Trad full size bench stone has its place to be sure, But! for our good friends looking to place that first hesitant step on jpn hones I have oft said; yes, get a small thin one. well/ not too small but as thin as one may find. I have yet to notice any thinning from my 1/4 inch thick asagi. *shrug.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I hardly have a need to talk to SoYo and he is always closed; however. if I wanted to buy a stone I would be writing to him a_t_ moment and not you
Kevin,
I agree with you. I opt for palm size to get a better stone (as in faster and harder) for reasonable price.
Iv been looking to get a jnat. Thanks for the tip on japan tools.
You can also try Alex Gilmore at The Japan Blade. His stones are expensive, but with him you get what you pay for.
I've also heard very good things about So Yamashita, but I'm not sure he's accepting new orders right now.
I would avoid 330mate. Although I don't have any personal experience in buying from him, you can read lots of mixed experiences that others here have had. Some will tell you that they got a great stone from him at a cheap price, others will tell you that they had nothing but trouble. But even if only 1/3 of the people who purchase from him are dissatisfied, however, that's too many for me, personally.
Hello,
I have Naniwa 5k, 8k, 10k (superstones)
Shapton 12k
Shapton glass 16k
Shapton glass 30k
On the 30k shapton some razor blades cannot be fully honed (ocasionally).
It very depends on the steel & blade hardness.
Is there any suggestions you guys have, towards which Natural Hone should be really good for final edge finishing, before stropping ?
The only two people I trust on Japanese Naturals are So and a former member here Oldschool who used to get his stones from So.
You can't go wrong with So. I need another stone sooooooooo bad.........:)
Lynn
Is there any way you can give me the link to So, I really need to get high end japanese natural hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
Thank you in advance
I'm arguing devils advocate slightly here so I apologise in advance for that, but you should be able to get an excellent shaving edge with the stones you have at the moment.
TBH, you should be able to get a great shave right off your Naniwa 8k stone, and adding in more high grit stones to the mix wont necessarily make the shave any better.
What do you mean that some razors cannot be fully honed on the 30k? I'm just curious because I've heard good things about this stone, and its supposed to be an excellent finisher.
That said, if you definately do want to get a Japanese finisher, I've shaved with an Asagi edge which was truly excellent (one of my DD's that Dylan honed), and I have a Nakayama Maruichi which also gives truly superior edges.
I also rate Charnley Forest hones very highly.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Sorry, don't mean to hijack this discussion, but I just had to post some photos of a Nakayama usu-karasu that's coming in the mail to me. Now I have to wait for one of my razors to actually get a little dull!!
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubear
30k Shapton hone, is really good but in some cases, some vintage razors cannot be honed (steel is really good). Also, I would really question if Naniwa 8k is enough for the razor to be shave ready. But again, it very depends on steel quality and blade hardness.
Well for what its worth you need more than one Jnat to be able to get best edge from any razor. Not every stone will work equally well with every steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unitouch
8k is good enough, as confirmed by many, to sheave very well.
I need Japanese Natural hone for straight razors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Current in my tool box I have the following stones:
1. Naniwa (super stones ) 5k, 8k, 10k.
2. Shapton ceramic 12k.
3. Shapton ceramic glass 16k and 30k
All above mentioned stones are very good for straight razors maintenance and final honing before stropping on balsa and leather strops with diamond and chromium oxide pastes (0.25 and 0.5 microns).
Thanks
Actually... What is missing from your collection is lower grits for bevel setting. A J-Nat is not the most efficient way to set bevels but if you want an alternative to your Shapton 30k then yes a J-Nat can do the job. You just need to know what characteristics you want in the stone & be able to afford them if they are unobtainable in an inexpensive stone.
I totally agree with Oz, and I feel a bit daft that I missed it till now..! :gaah: :D
Its quite possible that you're not getting a good edge because you dont have a fully established bevel before you move on to the high grit stones.
The 5k Naniwa is your lowest grit stone and thats a bit too high for proper bevel setting work. You'd be better off adding a 1k Shapton or Naniwa stone to your rotation and ensuring that you have a proper bevel set before moving up the grits.
You should easily be able to shave arm hair at skin level off the 1k stone, and if you cant do that then you dont have a proper bevel set.
Adding more high grit stones wont make the razor any sharper, all they add is polish to the edge. If you dont have a bevel set then all your expensive J-Nat will do is give you a very polished but dull edge.
Definately get yourself a 1k stone, and ensure your bevel is good to go before you move on to any higher grit stones.
[QUOTE=Unitouch;629892]"I need Japanese Natural hone for straight razors ..."
I agree with Onimaru55. You may only be missing a bevel setting hone. With the other hones you have, you should be able to get a great edge without needing a Japanese natural finishing hone.
If you are like me, I seem to justify my needs. I have more razors, hones, soaps, creams, etc. then I need to get a good shave. I am just getting into the Japanese Natural hones and they are alot of fun and I need more.
If you "need" a Japanese natural, then I would recommend contacting So at Japan Tool. You should send him an email. He is a great guy to deal with. It will most likely take some time before he gets back with you because he is extremely busy, but it is well worth it.
In the mean time, get a good bevel setting hone, as much experence honing as you can and start a J Nat hone savings fund. When So gets back with you, you will be better able to answer his questions regarding what you are looking for, what honing experience you have, what size hone are you looking for and what is your budget.
Good luck and have fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn
J-nats: crack cocaine for the straight shaving community.
Sorry to hijack this thread, but Unitouch, I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by saying "some vintage razors cannot be honed... [as the] steel is really good"... (re: 30k Shapton).Quote:
Originally Posted by Unitouch
To say that a razor cannot be honed because the steel is really good is almost a paradox... Am I completely off track here gents?
Where would a finishing/polishing quality J Nat fit in the system of stones UniTouch has? Maybe that's unanswerable if the range of grit of J Nat stones/hones is widely variable. I'm just curious if the finest J Nat would be finer or less fine than a Shapton 30? A Shapton 16K? Where does a Belgian coticule fit in the grand scheme of things?
J-nat should be interchangeable with Shapton 30k, what the finest grit is of a good J-nat is unknown.Quote:
Originally Posted by fdennis
For Coticules I have seen estimations in the range of 8-12k finish, but I am not sure how relevant that is. One thing is for sure one can get very good shave off a Coticule.
It's a moot point as the particle shapes & their action are completely different for all these hones. The Shaptons cut small grooves into the steel whereas J-Nats work more like a wood plane shaving the steel. The Coticule with it's rhomboid shaped facets is almost a cross between the other two.Quote:
Originally Posted by fdennis
Suffice it to say they all do a great job in the right hands but IIRC I read a post where someone claimed to remove Shapton 30k scratches with a J-nat.
door stops, shims, bath tiles.... just some of the uses for the stones you mention in a post-nice_working jnat lifestyle. Coticules excluded only because you just have to love the coti for itself, for being thereQuote:
Originally Posted by fdennis