Is this hone junk????

Hey All,

I have been shaving with a Dovo Prima Kalang honed with a Belgian coticule + Dovo strop. There seems to be some slight tugging with the razor so I figured I'd try to go keener.

Razor shop sold me this: Global Ceramic Pink Super Grit 5000 Made in Japan.

They said it was the finest they had...

I haven't used it yet... but I am beginning to wonder if this would do more harm than good to my edge. My hanging hair tests are good. I think my blade control is decent as well.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...7/a4bdd1ca.jpg

Thanks

D.

I've never used one but it looks good to me. It is not going to produce a finer edge than a coticule though. You would definitely need two or at least one hone of finer grit after using that 5k hone.

Why do you presume it to be junk?

I don't know about the quality of that hone, but if you need a 10mm wrench and only have an 18mm wrench, that doesn't make the 18mm wrench junk. It's just the wrong tool for the job. If the store told you this was the finest they had, then clearly they are selling knife hones not razor hones. That would be a mighty fine knife hone but insufficient by itself for honing razors.

5K is still pretty rough. I think barber hones are about 10K or so. I would look at something like that for touchups. For about $20 you can get a barber hone off ebay or a chinese "12k" for about the same price. You'll be glad you have that 5K when it comes time to do a re-hone so just put it away for later.

it says 5k but it will act same as 7k level. it is not junk . you can use on your progression. gl

But I will gain nothing over a Belgian coticule? Should I return it and ask him to order me a 10k (if he can get one?)

As I say - Belgian coticule can produce hair-popping edge... but I still feel that it pulls a little too much on my beard.

THANKS

D.

I read it twice to make sure before I answered, and the question I would have is, "Did you hone the razor with the Coticule"

If you have the Coticule, this would be a great "sharpener to use before the Coticule finish...

This stone alone is one of those unknowns to me...Sham seems to have used the stone and I would take his 7k reference to the bank on it.. I guess you are going to have to try it alone and see what you get out of it, then if you have the Coticule, try finishing with that after the 5k, and see what that yields you...

You could try this stone for 10-20 X strokes and see if it will shave arm hair. If it does, then try the Coticule with slurry for 10 X strokes and with just water for 10 X strokes and see how it goes. It is definitely not the right stone for use in lieu of a Coticule or after one.

Have fun,

Lynn

Crap!!!! I was too impulsive it seems. I am comfortable resetting a bevel all the way to honing with water on a coticule alone. I just feel that it could be a wee bit keener. It passes the HHT. Hmmm but seem not as keen as my Merkur DE blades. Returning it tomorrow. Should have done my homework.

Try 10-15 X strokes on some .5 diamond or chromium oxide.

Have fun,

Lynn

One reason it is recommended to start with a stone such as Norton 4/8 or the equivalent Shapton or Naniwa is that many members have experience with them and can advise someone on their experience. Yours is probably a good stone but not many, if any, members know that brand. A 1k to set bevels and an 8 or 10k to finish would be good to have along with your 5k. OTOH, the coticule is a good finisher too.

It seems odd to me that your razor is pulling after honing on the coticule. For the last few weeks I've been shaving exclusively off my Naniwa 8k and I have no pulling at all. Perhaps you're not getting all you can off your coticule, or maybe your face is just more discerning than mine.

As the guys above have said, that hone you just picked up would fit in before the coticule, not after.

I think Lynn's suggestion of trying the .5 diamond or chrome ox is a great one - if that works, you are set; if it doesn't, your edge is not as good as it can be off the coticule.

I'm not sure how appropriate the hone is for razors but Global make pretty decent kitchen knives. I would guess that the hone is as good as most other man made 5000 wet stones. And it's a good size.

Thanks for your feedback, Gentlemen,


As much as I like the stone... it goes back to retailer. I told the guy it was for a straight razor - the step after a coticule.

I think I have taken the blade as far as the coticule could go. Bart got a look at it and said it was sharp and shave ready ;)

Still, I think I could get it just a weeeee bit sharper. I still feel I have to pull a little excessively to get through my beard - patrticularly the first WTG strokes. I pit this against my Merkur DE that I merely drag across my face using the weight of it. Maybe I am expecting too much of a straight edge?

I want it to slice whiskers off effortlessly... like a first shave on a fresh Merkur DE blade. Realm of possible?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dorian

Thanks for your feedback, Gentlemen,


As much as I like the stone... it goes back to retailer. I told the guy it was for a straight razor - the step after a coticule.

I think I have taken the blade as far as the coticule could go. Bart got a look at it and said it was sharp and shave ready ;)

Still, I think I could get it just a weeeee bit sharper. I still feel I have to pull a little excessively to get through my beard - patrticularly the first WTG strokes. I pit this against my Merkur DE that I merely drag across my face using the weight of it. Maybe I am expecting too much of a straight edge?

I want it to slice whiskers off effortlessly... like a first shave on a fresh Merkur DE blade. Realm of possible?

---

No, you are not expecting too much. You need a finer stone after your coticule to get there though. Perhaps another coti, or more likely a different type of stone altogether.

Alternatively, this may have nothing to do with the sharpness of the razor and instead may be an issue of your technique. HOW you use the razor dramatically impacts the quality of the shave in the same manner as how well a knife can cut a tomato. If you just push the knife straight down, it won't cut well as if you use a slicing motion. This is the same issue when straight shaving.

I have one I picked up on the cheap and it works excellent for pyramid progression. Lap with a 325 DMT and you get a nice pinkish white slurry that cuts fast. After the 5000K hone I use the Kitayama 8/12K or South African Silkvein and then on the the naturals.

Roger that on the slicing motion. Will add a little of that.

Still, I was not slicing with the DE.

I took the stone back. He called me a back on hour later. Said he might be able to locate a 10 000 stone.

Fingers crossed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dorian

Roger that on the slicing motion. Will add a little of that.

Still, I was not slicing with the DE.

I took the stone back. He called me a back on hour later. Said he might be able to locate a 10 000 stone.

Fingers crossed.

---

FYI, the slicing stroke is referred to as a scything stroke. I know it's been discussed in the forum before. Basically rather than the path of the razor forming a rectangle from start to finish, it is instead a parallelogram. I do it with the toe leading but other do it heal leading.

You may need a 12k or 16k synthetic to improve a Coticule edge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Piet

You may need a 12k or 16k synthetic to improve a Coticule edge.

---

+1 to the above statement. If you are using a coticule now you will need something along the 16 K range to get a noticeable difference, the 10K the guy is trying to sell you will still be below the coticules ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dorian

Hey All,

I have been shaving with a Dovo Prima Kalang honed with a Belgian coticule + Dovo strop. There seems to be some slight tugging with the razor so I figured I'd try to go keener.

Razor shop sold me this: Global Ceramic Pink Super Grit 5000 Made in Japan.

They said it was the finest they had...

I haven't used it yet... but I am beginning to wonder if this would do more harm than good to my edge. My hanging hair tests are good. I think my blade control is decent as well.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...7/a4bdd1ca.jpg

Thanks

D.

---

Looks pretty good. From the writing I can see that it is Korean. HAHA funny a stamp says made in japan at the bottom yet has Korean characters on the top. I think that white stone is supposed to be used to clean and smooth the stones you hone your blade with.

I'm not sure I would call the stroke, when the blade is at an angle to its path, a slicing motion, nor would I compare it to slicing a tomato. As others have pointed out it's more of a sycthing motion, but maybe at some level that's essentially the same thing. Whatever you do, don't draw the razor across your face, as if you are slicing a tomato--or anything else. In my opinion, that's a sure way to get cut--not nicked, cut.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fdennis

I'm not sure I would call the stroke, when the blade is at an angle to its path, a slicing motion, nor would I compare it to slicing a tomato. As others have pointed out it's more of a sycthing motion, but maybe at some level that's essentially the same thing. Whatever you do, don't draw the razor across your face, as if you are slicing a tomato--or anything else. In my opinion, that's a sure way to get cut--not nicked, cut.

---

We'll just have a agree to disagree.
If you read THIS thread, especially post #26, you will see a diagram of the stroke.

I think we agree on how the stroke is done--just not on what to call it, or what to compare it to.

Heheheh - well thanks to the two different perspectives on the slice/scythe motion... I got the full picture and tried it out.

Indeed!!!! :bow Makes a significant difference! Learned something again! I still think my blade could be sharper... but this is a nice step in a comfortable direction!

Thanks Gents!

D.

Update time...

Coupla things... I got a hold of some Chromium Oxide and yes, the blade is significantly sharper. But that is for another thread.

What I will point out is a lesson that I learned:

Different strops may require different stropping techniques. I have two dovo strops - one a little wider and longer than the other. I used to apply the same technique using both but found that results varied. Then I figured it: the shorter narrower strop seems to prefer a little more pressure to achieve similar results in terms of keeness. Who would have thunk?

Cheerios

D.