Honing - move the blade or the stone?

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09-15-2010, 04:36 AM
MWS

Honing - move the blade or the stone?

Hey Guys.

Had almost a year of practice on both stropping and shaving. Rough at the start but with persistence, have really come along. Not a pat on the back, but after well over 150 shaves in I'm able to get a confident, effective shave...better than my DE. Still improving daily, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I'm sure you've all been there.

When it comes to touch ups, I've considered myself lucky - followed the wiki, lapped my naniwa 12000 and did about 20 laps. Stropped, and enjoyed a sharper blade and a smooth shave. How hard can this be, right?

Anyway, after a few more months I've collected and used a couple more blades and was ready to touch them up again. This time I lapped my naniwa 8000 and did only 3 gentle laps, back to the 12000 and did 15-20 more. Light as a feather. Stropped and shaved. It wasn't nearly as comfortable as my first attempt. The blade felt pretty ragged and I got 2 small cuts for my troubles. My shaving technique was fine :confused:. It almost felt like a burr had formed, or the striations were too aggressive - neither I would have suspected with only a few trips on the 8000/12000. Skin was a little tender, but better after my post shave rinse and balm. By the end of the day my face hadn't developed any burn. A relief.

The blade seemed sharp and shave ready, just not comfortable.

Here's my question. I decided to take the razor back to the hone to polish it up...just the 12000 mind you. My naniwa has a stand and although I maintain good contact on my down stroke, after I flipped the "push" stroke seemed to have much poorer contact. Just didn't feel right. After 10 laps, I still wasn't confident in that push stroke. I've seen a few of you holding the hone in your left palm and honing with the right so I decided to try the same. MUCH more comfortable, and much better contact...both down and up.

Strangely, one thing I noticed is that the best contact was when I moved my hone hand back and forth through the laps while keeping my blade hand relatively still, not the other way around. Not sure if it was more effective, will try the razor out for tomorrows shave.

Do you think this is just a comfortable "YMMV" way to hone, or do you think it'll be detrimental in the long run - and I should try to keep the hone firm and sharpen by moving my blade hand only? I guess I'm feeling that when I move the light blade with my right hand I almost get the "shakes" trying to keep it right, but I'm much more stable and in control when I leave it alone and let the heaver hone hand do the work.

Any feedback's appreciated!

Mike
09-15-2010, 04:51 AM
holli4pirating

I've never heard of someone moving the stone instead of the razor, but I guess go with what works.
09-15-2010, 04:59 AM
red96ta

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone moving the hone instead of the razor...but the rules for honing are just a guideline...if it works, then it's all cake. I also feel you pain on a developing bur. I've got one razor that I have to be really delicate with or it gets one pretty easily and it drives me nuts.
09-15-2010, 06:26 AM
PhatMan

MWS,

I have tried it with both honing and stropping (with a paddle strop).

It really didn't feel right for me, so I went back to the normal way of doing :)

I think Dr Moss recommended this technique; something to do with the brain and motor functions ! He mentions this in his 'advanced honing guide', found here http://files.me.com/drmoss/6y99mu

If it works for you, and you are nice and comforatble with then have at it !! :)

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ
09-15-2010, 05:01 PM
StubbleBuster

I would like to know how your shave went with this new technique. Have you shaved with it yet?
09-15-2010, 05:26 PM
HNSB

When I sharpen my axes I move the stone over the blade. They get sharp that way.
Whether the hone is moving or the steel is moving, abrasive grits are removing steel.
09-15-2010, 06:03 PM
JimmyHAD

I try to be open minded to new ideas .... and moving the stone rather than the razor is a new one for me ..... but I'm going to stick with moving the razor. :) It's been working so I ain't gonna fix it.
09-15-2010, 07:11 PM
MWS

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I try to be open minded to new ideas .... and moving the stone rather than the razor is a new one for me ..... but I'm going to stick with moving the razor. :) It's been working so I ain't gonna fix it.

All great answers...thanks. I'll shave with it tonight and report back.

Keep in mind that I'm not using any dramatic movements here, just a very slight back and forth with the left (hone) and a touch of the right (blade).

I had poor technique with stropping at the start, took a couple of months to get the muscle memory and now it's a whole world of difference.
09-15-2010, 07:15 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWS

All great answers...thanks. I'll shave with it tonight and report back.

Keep in mind that I'm not using any dramatic movements here, just a very slight back and forth with the left (hone) and a touch of the right (blade).

I had poor technique with stropping at the start, took a couple of months to get the muscle memory and now it's a whole world of difference.

There are two schools of honing, one is holding the stone in one hand and the razor in the other. Another is having the stone firmly fixed on a table or countertop and moving the razor. Both seem to work well for me and I do both but more often than not I leave mine on a countertop. Size of the hone enters into it too. Some hones are just too big to hold comfortably while honing. Try it both ways and see what works best for you.
09-15-2010, 09:30 PM
Jimbo

In fact, when I hold the hone in my hand (at the polishing stages) I do move the stone a little as I move the the blade - in the opposite direction to the blade, if you know what I mean. You do need to be careful if you do it, and I am not too sure it adds anything to the mix. But that is what I do, for better or for worse.

James.
09-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Piet

If moving the stone works great, but it seems a bit backward and I doubt you will get the same feedback and control. If I were you I would take my time learning to either hone with the hone on a table or in hand and moving the razor. Leave moving the stone as a last resort if all else fails.
09-15-2010, 11:01 PM
AFDavis11

I would guess that there is a problem with geometry of the razor and that moving the hone added pressure into the stroke that did not exist when you were moving the razor.

I would not make it a habit.
09-16-2010, 12:24 AM
hi_bud_gl

I couldn't believe when i read this op.
In fact you can move the stone and keep stable blade and sharpen the razor.
The only problem is
you must use Back honing(name may be wrong basically stone doesn't go against the edge but same direction as the edge)
This will take more time and practice and patience.
i hope you chose the option which razor moving not hone.
gl.
09-16-2010, 03:16 AM
MWS

Quote:

Originally Posted by StubbleBuster

I would like to know how your shave went with this new technique. Have you shaved with it yet?

Had my shave tonight. I'd give myself a...drum roll please...C+ to a B.

The blade was down to about 75% from shave ready before the hone. Although I didn't bring it back up to SRD quality of 100%...I think it was brought back to ~90%.

A HUGE improvement over my first attempt. A relatively smooth, irritation free shave. A satisfactory attempt.

Still a long way to go, and from the feedback here I'll try to keep the blade moving rather than the hone...but at least I know I'm not doing anything too bad. I'm giving myself higher marks for keeping at it, improving the edge and bring back a dullish blade to pretty much shave ready. Not bad for a 3rd attempt at honing, and keeping me hungry for more :rolleyes:

Good times. Thanks again!