Shaved Off the Naniwa 3K

I know there is a thread here somewhere on what the lowest grit hone various folks have shaved off of.

I have just finished my first razor honed for someone else--one of my students who is about to start straight shaving. He has a razor honed by Lynn, but had another from a yard sale--it's an "O.B. Special" and the other side has "Nashville Barber Supply" stamped into the metal.

It looked pretty nice, though he was worried about the spike point and the edge had some minor dings. I offered to hone it for him to see what I could do.

Used a DMT 325 to smooth out the rough spots on the edge and round off the spike slightly. Then I went to the DMT 1200 to set the bevel, using one layer of tape to protect the spine--I guess it not being my razor made me concerned. I decided to stay on the 1200 until I knew the bevel was right, and eventually it easily shaved leg hair.

Then I went to the Naniwa 3K and when I was done, I stropped it on leather and did a full-face WTG pass. I was amazed! This must be a nicer razor than I thought. The WTG pass was the closest I've ever had, with no pulling except one spot near my mouth where all my razors pull. It felt very comfortable and smooth.

So I gave it a few more on the 3K then up the line, the Naniwa 8K and 12K, then Chromium Oxide on fabric, then linen and leather strop.

All of which dramatized to me that yes, if the bevel is set right, if the work on the lower grits is done right, the main part of honing is done.

Every time I enjoy a razor I've honed, i think about these forums and how much I have learned from all your generosity and knowledge.

Now my student will gain from your encouragement as well!

Cool! It was my thread, but I don't remember where I put it. I don't have the Naniwa 3k, but I shaved off my 5k. Glad to hear you can go one lower. Also, congrats on the honing success, and thanks for sharing the story behind it.

It’s all about pressure. Awhile back someone took a few photos of a piece of chalk that he was watching his kids draw on the sidewalk with.

The photos showed simply and dramatically the difference in the striations on the chalk after varying the pressure on the same piece of sidewalk with the same piece of chalk. That tread should be in the wiki, it says it all.

Marty

Nice job! :tu

I did actually try shaving off the 3k on a razor I was honing, and I too was suprised at how good the shave was. I'd been thinking it would be like dragging a saw blade across my face but it was pretty smooth and comfortable.

It just shows that by the time your razor comes off the 3k its basically as sharp as its going to get. All the higher grits are just further refining that edge.

Thanks for sharing!

For those of you who are a little older, you may remember the game show, "Name That Tune!"

These types of threads are reminding me of that show. Maybe eventually we're going to find out this guy wasn't kidding and he actually gets nice smooth shaves!

YouTube - Straight Razor Honing on a Brick (This is a joke)

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Originally Posted by Utopian

For those of you who are a little older, you may remember the game show, "Name That Tune!"

These types of threads are reminding me of that show. Maybe eventually we're going to find out this guy wasn't kidding and he actually gets nice smooth shaves!

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:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao

I completely lost it with the milk! Amazing. As a honing beginner, this video will become my inspiration and a reference for all future hone jobs.

This really dramatized to me what you guys always say--the main work is on the 1K and 3/4/5K stones. So I decided I wouldn't leave the 1K (actually a DMT 1200) until I liked how the razor shaved leg hair...now my legs do look kinda funny…

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Originally Posted by Stubear

Nice job! :tu

I did actually try shaving off the 3k on a razor I was honing, and I too was suprised at how good the shave was. I'd been thinking it would be like dragging a saw blade across my face but it was pretty smooth and comfortable.

It just shows that by the time your razor comes off the 3k its basically as sharp as its going to get. All the higher grits are just further refining that edge.

Thanks for sharing!

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This is utterly hysterical! I wonder if the brick+milk method would make honing stainless steel any faster...or easier...or maybe both...

Why in the wide world of sports would you want to try and shave off 3000K hone? I’m not drinking that Kool-Aid. I guess you could shave off a dull deer antler if you wanted to. I can see it now, a dull deer antler quaintly poised on a shave scuttle posted on SOTD. It’s the best shave ever!!! Wheeeeeeeeeee.

Think of it this way. If you can get a decent shave off the 3K stone, you've really done the job of setting the bevel and sharpening the edge quite well. There was a long thread elsewhere dealing with the importance of the lower grit stones where folks were trying this to learn something about the stage at which the razor transitions from being "pretty sharp" to almost shave-ready. I'm only a rank beginner at honing, so it's important to me to know how the edge performs at different stages of the process.

This AM I shaved with that same razor, having gone up the chain to the 8K, 12K, CrOx, linen and leather. It shaved very well, in fact, one of the best razors I've shaved with in my vast…months…of straight shaving.

But it was not hugely better than what I got off the 3K stone. I really saw the reality that 90% or so of the work is actually done by the time we move from the sharpening stone to the polishing and finishing stones.

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Originally Posted by MODINE

Why in the wide world of sports would you want to try and shave off 3000K hone? I’m not drinking that Kool-Aid. I guess you could shave off a dull deer antler if you wanted to. I can see it now, a dull deer antler quaintly poised on a shave scuttle posted on SOTD. It’s the best shave ever!!! Wheeeeeeeeeee.

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Actually you can shave off a deer antler if you hone it right.

You first get a brick and some 2% milk…wait…

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Originally Posted by MODINE

Why in the wide world of sports would you want to try and shave off 3000K hone? I’m not drinking that Kool-Aid. I guess you could shave off a dull deer antler if you wanted to. I can see it now, a dull deer antler quaintly poised on a shave scuttle posted on SOTD. It’s the best shave ever!!! Wheeeeeeeeeee.

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Originally Posted by LawsonStone

Think of it this way. If you can get a decent shave off the 3K stone, you've really done the job of setting the bevel and sharpening the edge quite well. There was a long thread elsewhere dealing with the importance of the lower grit stones where folks were trying this to learn something about the stage at which the razor transitions from being "pretty sharp" to almost shave-ready. I'm only a rank beginner at honing, so it's important to me to know how the edge performs at different stages of the process.

This AM I shaved with that same razor, having gone up the chain to the 8K, 12K, CrOx, linen and leather. It shaved very well, in fact, one of the best razors I've shaved with in my vast…months…of straight shaving.

But it was not hugely better than what I got off the 3K stone. I really saw the reality that 90% or so of the work is actually done by the time we move from the sharpening stone to the polishing and finishing stones.

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Lawson i am confused with above message.
Just remember if you cannot see' hugely better 'differences between 3k and 12k edge then
Sorry to say you have to spend a lot time on honing .
Honing takes time . i don't think any of us learned after honing 3 razors.just work on razors and see how much better it will get.

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I'm only a rank beginner at honing, so it's important to me to know how the edge performs at different stages of the process.

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please check early posts on honing there is a lot clues when to move from 4k to 8k so on.
there is some sharpness test out there you can do them and see how edge changes or use small radio shack microscopes etc. instead of shaving after 1k,3k,5k,8k etc.
if you choose shaving after every stone you will loose a lot blood.
hope this helps.

Hmmm. Intriguing. I checked the edge on my 60x-100x 'shak microscope after the 4k and 5k grit and was impressed, but 3k? That's difficult to pull off. I would dare do anything that was flirting with ATG (for me on the jaw leftwards and upwards). I'd restrict movements to left-down and down. I recently honed up a $6.50 4/8th to 8k (Norton), shaved with it last night to check the length of the edge (no microscope to keep me honest and possibly learn to detect by facial shaving) and it went very well. Then I honed it up today a good while on the Spyderco Ultra-Fine (estimated 12k-15k ore more). I could tell the difference. For much of my face, for most of the directions, it is not dramatic enough to matter much, but for some regions with some directions... I couldn't handle it. I think a major factor is skin type, including toughness.

I've used a professional honer's blade, first time use, mind you, after months of only my own blades, which are never finished on what kind of stones/compounds they've got to play with. I can tell you, closest shaves I've gotten, no irritation either. Some of us can get away with rougher edges and some of us will be left forever wanting the smoooothest babied blades.

But that's pretty neat, Lawson.

Gosh I seem to have struck a nerve with a couple of you. Didn't mean to do that, wasn't trying to be controversial.

I have about 10 razors that were professionally honed. Some were new, some NOS, a couple vintage. I have about 20 that I've honed myself, all eBay finds that needed some restoration. I've used the professionally honed blades as my standard for judging my own work. Often on the same morning I use a razor honed by some SRP luminary on one side of my face, and a razor honed by me on the other side. It's crazy I know, but it's tons of fun! I have been able to measure how much I fall short and with pleasure have seen my efforts improving. Several hear, via e-mail and PMs, have given me blow-by-blow advice on different stages. I'm grateful for that mentoring (you all know who you are!).

I took to heart the statements by several, some posting early on this thread others on the earlier thread of shaving off the 5K stone, that 90+% of the work of honing is done on setting the bevel and sharpening the edge, that the 8K, 12K are polishing an edge that is already basically as sharp as it's likely to get.

I was testing that claim for myself, and felt it vindicated very well by my experience. The additional work on the higher grit stones is certainly well worth the effort involved, especially now that I know better what those stages actually accomplish.

I've tried all the famous sharpness tests, and I read over and over that they aren't absolute standards. I do shave leg/arm hair. I test on my thumbpad, which seems quite sensitive to an edge. The HHT I don't care about in the least because the only hair I can find is so fine not even the pro-honed razors cut it regularly. I don't plan to shave after every stage of every time I hone a razor, so Sham you don't need to worry! :) This was a specific test I was trying to learn in detail how each stage feels, tests, and shaves.

So thanks all for your feedback, and I'm sorry if some thought I was trying to be controversial. I am a theology professor in real life, and I understand orthodoxies and the need to uphold orthodox practice and principles. I also think experimenting and testing "orthodoxies" whether in religion or in honing razors, is valid too.

So the simple fact is that I honed a razor that gave me a nice shave after the 3K Naniwa, but there was room for improvement, which came with the higher grit hones and my strops, leaving me a nicely shaving razor to give back to my student.

Very insightful Lawson! Humans only really learn by trial and error, so we can all benefit from your experimentation. I think I am going to try this out for myself off my Naniwa 5K (I don't have a 3K, only 1,5,8 &12K)

Keep it up for all our sakes please.

A little reading

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lation-me.html


The more you mess with this stuff the more you are going to find "Sharp" happens at much lower grits then most think...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

A little reading

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lation-me.html


The more you mess with this stuff the more you are going to find "Sharp" happens at much lower grits then most think...

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I missed that thread last year, but as I predicted, the grit bidding keeps going lower.

Who wants to bid a shave off of a 400 grit Naniwa or a 500 grit Shapton?

I dont disagree, I know you can shave at the 1k level, what I wonder is why would you. I have done it for the fun and knowledge, but to me smooth is just as important as sharp.

I honestly think that perhaps some of you are reading too much into the Low grit shaves ...
They are not any recommendation what so ever to shave at these grits

There has always been a group of people that want to put the aspects of sharp and smooth into one camp... Myself, I think that is fundamentally wrong.. By being able to get a shaving sharp edge at these lower levels it proves, at least in my mind, that sharp is a totally different animal than smooth...

The two aspects need to come together at the higher levels to give a "Shave Ready" edge that is comfortable to the face...

But "sharp" happens at a much lower level than many think and these tests prove it... IMHO YMMV and all that other stuff....

But nobody is saying "Shave at 1k, 3k, or 5k" what they are finding is the the edge is much sharper then they thought at much lower grits...
This is also helpful as an indicator of just how sharp an edge is on a proper bevel...