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First off, I don't have a coticule or a BBW and don't plan on getting any till I learn how to use what I already have. I have been reading as much as I can find about hones and from everything I have read I can't see any reason to have a BBW if you already have a Coti.
It appears that the BBW what the coti does just not as well (meaning fast). So what is the point? Just trying to learn.
No 2 natural stones are the same. You can get a blisteringly fast BBW & a super slow coti.
A really fast coti may not leave as fine a finish as a fast BBW. Horses for courses .
BBW are relatively new and long time ago believed to be useless.
They still are (in my opinion) inferior to the coticule.
But if you compare prices and sizes available, the slower yet almost as good a finisher BBW doesn´t seem that bad!
If I didn't have a BBW attached to my coticule, I wouldn't go out and buy one. But it can be used as a "plan b" hone when things aren't clicking.
I know the guys at coticule.be are working on a method to use the BBW effectively, and will publish a procedure (similar to the current Unicot and Dilucot and J-nat ones) once they have it down. I think Bart has used a BBW with a light slurry between the final dilution on a coti and a coti with just water, but can't locate the reference at this moment. I have also used it this way with good results.
I have a BBW coti but it's an old rock vintage with the label. I don't want to remove the label so that's my reasoning for not using the bbw side! lol
BBW's are a lower grit than a coti, 4-6k range, more or less, not just slower, and can be used prior to a Coticule. Coti's are 8-10k basically...
I find that they're great for knives...BBW's that is...As a matter of fact, The Quarry has them attached to a paddle with a carbo hone for just that purpose....or as mentioned, it can be considered the poor man's Coti...
I guess the grit range of these naturals are subjective, but this is what the quarry claims....
BTW, good plan, learning to use what you have first...you'd be surprised how many folks don't do that...Kudo's to you..
REASON 1: I have had coticules in the past, in particular a green one that could just not cut at all. It was an excellent finisher, but a finisher only. So the BBW on the opposite side allowed it to complete a progression after a synthetic 1K.
REASON 2: Many do not wish to 'waste' their coticule. When I say waste, I mean wear it down more rapidly with slurry, so they use their BBW to take them to a medium level before finishing on the coticule.
REASON 3: I have found that as Holli says, it works nicely as a Plan B hone.
In certain circumstances I have found it to complement the coticule after a 1k. After a bevel is set at 1K level, BBW with slurry, then BBW with plain water, then to coti with a light slurry, then to coti with plain water.
For whatever reason, this system has worked better than dilucot FOR ME, on certain razors. Josh Earl has recommended it also.
BACK TO THE OP: You see, you have to have used several coticules and BBWs to understand the question you ask. Once you have used many coticules, you will see that some can only polish, while some are very aggressive. They do not all cut nicely from bevel to final polish at a completely steady speed, which is why the BBW has its uses.
+3 to Holli's comment. I have found that when I cannot get the level of sharpness needed on the coticule side no matter what I do, that doing circles followed by very light strokes on the BBW side will often get the sharpness up to where I want it. T
hen I go back and do some very light laps on the coticule with water only, to finish. I use a drop of Trader Joe's liquid handsoap on the hone to help the blade to "stick" with good results. YMMV.
I don't really understand what this means. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I use my BBW like I would any other hone with slurry. I raise some slurry, hone, dilute, hone, dilute, finish with just water. I played with mine to firgure out what works, and, IMO, everyone needs to do that because each one is different. What more is there to discover?Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
I use my bbw constantly, it is the bridge between the 1k and the coti. A great time saver.
I'm no expert on the BBW. But Bart and the other Belgian fans are currently working on perfecting the stone with a repeatable process.Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I understand from them that BBWs are not as unique as other natural stones. They all work the same, more or less. I doubt the process, as will be published there in good time, is as straightforward as the one you use. Maybe it will be.
While repeated dilutions work with many stones, there are others that seem a little more complex. J-nats, as an example, if you believe in Jim's description.
Thank you gentlemen. It's just that I have not read much about people actually using there BBW much, I guess it is more useful than I first thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
where currantly blind testing three razors. two honed on two differant blues and one on coticule. the lads who have taken part have to post there results. basicly which one shaved the smoothest. the the blue on its own or the natural blue /coti or coti edge alone. it will be interesting to se if the coticule gets the best vote or the blue .
When I used to use them a lot more I would use the BBW after bevel setting and finish on the coti with water. The bevel would either be done with a coti & slurry or a 1K stone, depending on the razor.
I guess I probably could have gotten to the end point just as well by very slowly diluting the coti slurry, but I never tried it that way. I always used the BBW to sharpen and the coti to finish, and it worked me.
I would think it would depend more on how good a finisher that coti is vs how good a finisher those two BBW's are. I would think you would need pretty large sample sizes to help address the variations among each stone if you wanted to make any sort of a generalization. I am sure there is at least one BBW that finishes better than at least one coticule, and I'm also sure that the reverse statement is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by gary haywood
This test started months ago and I think I have been waiting since March for these results! The honing on the BBW stones is from bevel all the way to finish on the BBW stone, just not finishing on it, which to me seems impossible but I am no Beligian expert!Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I think most people here underestimate the belgium blue. I've got several of them and they work great to get a sharp edge (edge will pass the HHT). You only need a finisher after that and you get a great shave. I also really like the feedback they give.
But maybe I'm just crazy
Skizzo
I certainly wouldn't want to set a bevel on my BBW. But then again, if the razor is very close to start with, it wouldn't be terrible. Mine cut at a decent rate with slurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disburden
I've also gotta say, I cannot understand why anyone would use something other than a synthetic stone to set a bevel. 1k's are not exactly expensive, and you'll save a lot of time. I guess if you only planned on setting 5 bevels in your lifetime, you could do without, but then again, it's $20-$35 more that you'd spend in your lifetime, so would you really notice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by holli4pirating
I agree with you, I use a Naniwa 1K for my bevel setting and then I use a Norton combo followed by the naniwa 12K then an Escher. I am just explaining the whole experiement which is dulling razors on glass, then sharpening all the way through to a finish on the BBW and having people test the razors blind a long with coticule honed razors. Then I think there is instructions for the person testing to mimec the edges and then send out the razors to the next person and so on. This box of razors has been traveled around the world to different people for a long time now. It's actually a neat experiment if you think about it even if you don't like Belgian hones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizzo
Some people agree some don't and hair type is a huge factor also.
I like the BBW. It seems to add a 'keen'-ness that I just can't get with the coticules. Finish with a coticule, CH12K, and 16K Glassstone and the blades really stick to the hone. Without the BBW, I don't get the stickyness.