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Some people use the coticule for the entire process--sharpening thru finishing. Some people use the synthetics for sharpening, then finish on the coticule. For those who have done both, do you feel a difference in the final edge? (The only difference is synthetic or bbw/coticule in the sharpening stage.)
Thanx,
Me
No !!!!!!!!!
I "Train" the edge to the Natural by using a light slurry as I come off the synthetics...
Also for full disclosure my edges are shaving sharp before I get to the Natural...
YMMV along with your technique and your outcome...
I use a coticule from scratch to finish. I've used Nortons and other stones before, but I much prefer the coticule.
Forgive me. I think I may have been unclear with my question. I'm not asking the usual "What is your progression?" or "How do you finish with a coticule?" I'm asking if anyone here can distinguish between a razor honed on a synthetic-coticule progression versus a razor honed on a bbw-coticule progression. Does it make any difference upon the final edge [what I use for the sharpening stages]? And what is that difference [in your opinion]?
Thanx,
Me
I think the finish on an Escher is a lot more my liking than my coticule. But my coticule is good at beveling a razor.
Do you mean can you feel the difference between coti and a nani 12k when shaving?Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBianco
I have used both naturals and synthetics prior to finishing with a coticle and cannot tell the difference on the final edge. Similarly, if I finish with a diamond paste or CrO, it is only this final treatment which becomes evident in the shave.
this is how process works.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBianco
Lets say you have used combination of the stone to hone the blade.
1.1k ,4,k.8k ,12k naniwa then Cotciule.
2.1k,4knorton,8knorton ,16k shapton CF.
3.1knorton,4kshapton,8k norton,8k coticule, 20k japanese
Steps 1,2,3, you have used different combination of the stones to set bevel ,sharpen and finish the edge.
if your honing process correct when you move to next stone and finish honing in the stone you will have edge which is belongs to that stone.
Lets say.
2. we use norton 1k set the bevel.
next stone is is nortons then 16k shapton.
after 16k shapton you must have 16k shaptons edge. there is shouldn't be any sign from norton 4k.8k.
I am talking about the edge not the bevel please note.
Now when you do finishing job doesn't matter what stones you have used to set bevel, sharpen etc only edge will depends on last stone you have used.
Let me say again if the honer does correct job then last edge of the blade should have result of last stone you have used.
Bevel is a little different story.
in our case
1 edge will be Coticule
2 edge will be charnley forest
3 edge will be Japanese 20k level
i hope i was simple enough.
gl
No, let me see if I can gather my thoughts...OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by life2short1971
Question 1: Have you ever sharpened a razor from post-bevel (2-3K) all the way thru to the finishing stage (8-10K) using ONLY the bbw/coticule? If no, stop here. If yes, procede to question 2.
Question 2: Have you ever sharpened a razor from post-bevel (2-3K) all the way thru to the final sharpening/pre-finishing stage (8K) using ONLY synthetics (Naniwa/Norton), but then finish (8-10K) the coticule? If no, stop here. If yes, procede to question 3.
Question 3: If you were to test shave both those razors today, could you tell a difference in the edge? (If yes, please describe.)
Thanx,
Me
Interesting...can you explain the differences in the bevels?Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
Thanx,
Me
I have honed a razor from bevel setting to finishing on a coti as well as setting the bevel on synthetics and synthetics to the finisher, which was a coti. I can not feel the difference once both are finished on the coti, when done correctly. The issue is knowing how thick a slurry to create and when to dilute and how much to dilute and how to tell when to dilute. If you rush the process the razor will not be as sharp as setting the edge with synthetics where it is easier to tell when the edge is ready for the next hone. It's easier to achieve the optimal edge off synthetics. You can get there with the coti but you need to be more conscious of what is happening at the edge and when to progress to less slurry.
Bevel differences will depends couple factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBianco
how aggressive cutter is your stone.(doesn't matter what you use).
Norton 8k bevel is shiny looks like mirror finish(please note this is all about bevel has nothing to do with the edge)
Most Japanese stones bevel is hazy or some calls rain etc. depends how you wanna call.
Shapton's stones bevel is scratchy.
lets say.
you hone your blade fast cutting stone in 1 k level .
then you hone your razor using natural stone.
You may get shave ready edge from the blade but if you check the bevel you will be able to see 1k stones cutting lines.
This most visible if someone uses aggressive pastes to sharpen their blade.
Lets say Red paste which 3 very aggressive cutter will do this or diamond higher grit paste will do the exact same thing
Now some people learns to hone a little differently.
example when they hone the blade they check the bevel only and make sure scratches from early stone gone before finishing next stone honing.
Example.
you hone razor on 1k. you check the bevel and see scratches.
then you move to 3k stone. you stay on 3k stone until 1k scratches gone ,then you move 5k and stay on it until 3k scratches gone so on.
This way honing is really PITA.
TIME consuming.
I will add last is this.
doesn't matter what you use in your early honing process your edge must reflect your last used hones edge.
Of course i mean all honing procedure done correctly.
hope this helps.
We need RayG's discerning face for another blind test!
Question #1: Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBianco
" #2: Yes.
" #3: No.
Clear?
Crystal. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
Me
I do feel that the edge off the Escher is a better feeling edge than the Coticule. I love reading how many people here feel that the Coticule followed by CrOx produces an edge that feels like the Escher.
I also feel that I get a better edge more consistently with synthetic stones an Escher and a couple of Japanese Naturals than when using the Coticule as a finisher and this is with either light slurry or just water.
With the above being said, the Coticule is a "Can Do" stone. It is also versatile and the edges off it are respectable when you get them where you want them. Unfortunately, we have not only the personal preference thing going on, but the I love only Naturals thing going on, in addition to the popularity thing. Once you become good at honing or even when learning for that matter, you can try a lot of the stones out there, sign up and join the party of your choice or just enjoy the single set of stones that work best for you. I have for the last year or so, really enjoyed the folks pushing the Coticules. People continue to try to make them more than they can be in my opinion, which is fine, but there are a ton of good stones out there that produce very good results with less learning curve and more consistency.
On to the next Coticule question...........:)
Have fun,
Lynn
I have honed two razors using only a coticule. In my case, there was no sense of wanting to belong to one camp or another. It was a matter of economics. It started when I purchased my first str8, a shave ready Wilbert which I purchased on Ebay. The other was a Butcher Brothers which I bought in an antique store which, not only wouldn't cut arm hair, I could literally use a saw motion against my skin and it still wouldn't cut. I did some homework and asked around and decided that the coticule was a stone that could do it all.
My experience with the antique store bought razor was a long process indeed. As instructed, I started out with a milky slurry and little by little used thinner and thinner slurry once it shaved arm hair. I had to work it over the course of several days for about an hour at a time, but I finally ended up with my favorite shaver.
In the other case, I started out with a razor that was shave ready, but I dropped it once on the bath mat while stropping. Upon close inspection, I found the edge had taken a ding. I re-honed that in an afternoon. It was pretty cool to watch the ding through a loupe slowly change shape and get smaller until it finally disappeared.
In both cases, I finished off by stropping on Crox balsa, then linen, then leather. Eventually I will probably buy a faster cutting stone and a finer finishing stone, among others I'm sure, but since I had limited funds and I don't know any better, I've ended up with a couple of pretty damn fine shavers that hold an edge with only leather and a few passes on linen now and then. Especially true of the Butcher Bros which I rescued from the antique store. I can honestly say that I get e really sweet shave from that one. I suppose I will eventually get a finer edged razor either from someone like Lynn or as I progress as a honer, but with all due respect, I must say for a newbie with no prior honing experience, I'm not wanting for it.