Can I change a Coti's speed by swapping Slurry Stones??

Rather than hijack another thread, I thought to post this question in it's own thread.

My Coti is very slow. It's a fine finisher, but too slow to use as a sharpener or bevel-setter with slurry. What I'm trying to determine is whether different Coti slurry stones will change the hone's behavior in a manner similar to how JNats use naguras. And for that matter, because a BBW contains the same garnets, can a BBW slurry stone be used on my Coti to speed up it's sharpening performance? For polishing and finishing I'd still use the Coti with water (or the original slurry stone.)

Am I way off base here? Seeing the ad in the classified forum for combo slurry stones made me consider this question.

Imo you can't make a coticule fast if you tried. Play with different slurry stones and see, but from what I know its about the layer of vein the stone is from, coticules go by all different types of layer names.

Actually, I don't think you can trust characteristics within given veins either. The rocks are going to vary, plain and simple.

I can't comment on the differences in garnet size, but the garnets don't break off and roll around as intact duodecahedrons as some suggest. They break off in fragmented shards that progressively break apart into smaller pieces. The broken shards of the BBW start out bigger than the shards of the coticule.

It is quite likely that you can alter the coticules characteristics with a different rubber, but the effect will likely be short lived because most coticules are constantly releasing more slurry as they are used. Now if you did it on something harder, like the Chinese hone, then you'd be more likely to get a little more of the characteristics of the rubber's grit.

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Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

My Coti is very slow. It's a fine finisher, but too slow to use as a sharpener or bevel-setter with slurry. What I'm trying to determine is whether different Coti slurry stones will change the hone's behavior in a manner similar to how JNats use naguras. And for that matter, because a BBW contains the same garnets, can a BBW slurry stone be used on my Coti to speed up it's sharpening performance? For polishing and finishing I'd still use the Coti with water (or the original slurry stone.)

Am I way off base here? Seeing the ad in the classified forum for combo slurry stones made me consider this question.

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YES you can do so. Your Coticule basically will pay role of paddle strop.
At the of the honing you can take all slurrys out and just use your fine coticule finish the job.
There is no differences if you use instead of Japanese stone coticule. As long as you coticule fine enough you can do so.
i have video on youtube but in fact i used Japanese stone(very fine one) and different type slurry stones and set bevel and finish the edge.it is old video but it is useful. i didn't know how to turn out the camera forget to turn on audio but at least you can see whole process.

Pretty sure you can, as long as the new slurry stone has different characteristics. Almost positive that spessartine garnets do not cleave, @ least not w/ the pressures we use to hone razors, but if ye have pictures...:D

I've got a green coticule (vintage) that came from Jaspar Kade in SA. (by way of Belgium of course :)) It is a slow finisher. I took a credit card sized diamond plate (325) created a slurry and took some HC razors that already had a bevel set (Naniwa 1k) and sharpened them up nicely on the green coti. Washed the slurry off and finished them on the coti with water only. DFS with them.

For awhile at work I had a 5x2 vintage natural coticule with a creamy beige surface. I had a hunk of BBW there as well. One day I used the BBW as a slurry stone on the yellow side and the color of the slurry was purple. Leads me to believe that the solution created is largely that of the slurry stone rather than the hone. There is undoubtedly some of each but I think Sham (hi_bud_gl) is right and one slurry stone may be more effective than the other on a given hone. :hmmm:

If you use any slurry stone harder than the coticule you'll change the characteristics. use some.5 diamond and see what happens.

I would imagine the garnet xtls are pretty broken and deformed to begin with. The coticule is a metamorphic rock and the heat and pressure would change the xtls unless the garnets somehow formed later which I doubt.

for your slurry to be predominantly from the rubber you'd want the rubber to be softer, other wise it'll be a mix, or predominantly coticule.

the BBW may be softer than the coticule, meaning you can work with predominantly BBW slurry, which while typically slower, sets a better bevel then coti slurry anyways.

feel free to mix slurries from different types of stone. it's not a common idea, and lots of folks dont, but it still works. i've wondered what could be done with a large c12k and an array of slurry stones only.

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Originally Posted by ezpz

for your slurry to be predominantly from the rubber you'd want the rubber to be softer, other wise it'll be a mix, or predominantly coticule.

the BBW may be softer than the coticule, meaning you can work with predominantly BBW slurry, which while typically slower, sets a better bevel then coti slurry anyways.

feel free to mix slurries from different types of stone. it's not a common idea, and lots of folks dont, but it still works. i've wondered what could be done with a large c12k and an array of slurry stones only.

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I would dissagree about BBW slurry setting a better bevel than a coticule. I have a coticule that can set a bevel in five minutes and will cut arm hair at mid length by this point. All I have to do after that it hit better sharpness limit by using the bbw with slurry for about 60 laps.

agreed.. the coticule can usualy do it faster, but the bbw will produce a better bevel (keener).

once you've reached sharpness with BBW, what makes more sense: diluting bbw slurry, finishing with bbw + water, or moving to coticule with water?

My experience with spending a lot of time testing different slurry stones (all coticule or BBW) is as follows:

The type of coticule slurry stone used doesn't seem to have much effect on the way a coticule behaves. A slurry stone from a "typically" fast layer didn't really change a relatively slow coticule's performance, and the inverse is also true. This is what I've seen, and it's definitely counter-intuitive.

Regarding BBW slurry, it seems to help "bridge the gap" of keenness from the slurry stage of coticule use and finishing on water only.

Sham's video of the different slurry stones used on a Japanese stone is really cool. In fact, it's one of my favorite videos. However, what he is doing there, essentially has the same effect of effectual slurry diluting/management on a coticule. I have not tried using totally different types of slurry stones like his video, but it would make for an interesting exercise.

To answer espz's question: I would finish on water only after the BBW slurry.

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Originally Posted by ezpz

agreed.. the coticule can usualy do it faster, but the bbw will produce a better bevel (keener).

once you've reached sharpness with BBW, what makes more sense: diluting bbw slurry, finishing with bbw + water, or moving to coticule with water?

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I read a post by Bart a long time ago that BBW + water tends not to improve the edge and can actually dull it-- he advises moving from BBW + Slurry to Coticule + Water.

When I use my combo hone, I start with BBW with moderate slurry and then dillute it as I go, but not to the point of water only.

Chief

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Originally Posted by BHChieftain

I read a post by Bart a long time ago that BBW + water tends not to improve the edge and can actually dull it-- he advises moving from BBW + Slurry to Coticule + Water.

When I use my combo hone, I start with BBW with moderate slurry and then dillute it as I go, but not to the point of water only.

Chief

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I wouldn't use the BBW with just water, it does nothing to improve the edge from what I've seen. If it does then it's going to take a zillion laps to do so.

Well gang... I've got some interesting results.

I grabbed an older Revisor and set about setting a bevel using the SS that came with my Coti. It took forever, like it always does, and the slurry never really turned dark, indicating that very little metal was removed. I had to refresh the slurry three times because it simply dried out before I called the bevel set.

Then I used a different slurry stone, one that came from a vintage dished combination Coti. The hone was cracked in half, so each half became a SS. I used one of them on the same Coti to set a new bevel on the same Revisor. I didnt need to refresh the slurry at all. It turned dark and removed metal much quicker than slurry produced by the original stone.

My findings indicate that the slurry stone can impact the speed of the Coti.

i have many slurry stones. it sounds mad but i have my favourite slurry stone, i don't no why, i just stick with regular one. it just seems to work with coticules. i never noticed any speed differance with differant coticule slurry stones. i have 5 coticules ranging from rapid to very moderate to a little slower , so i have a good range. i do get to use them all .