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Awhile back I purchased a Franz Swaty hone. Recently I also acquired an Edlis Special No. 715 hone. Both are identical in size, and almost identical in color. The Edlis, though, seems softer, more clay-like, as opposed to the Swaty which seems granite-like.
So which one would I use first, after coming off my Norton 8K.
I tried comparing results in a loupe, but couldn't tell much difference.
none of them. why you need after 8k norton?Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
Because I am a hack with a hone. I am new to this, and while I can get a shave off an 8k, I can get a COMFORTABLE shave only when using something higher in grit.
I am not familiar with the softer hone, but I don't think the Swaty is higher in grit than 8K. Finished off the Swaty or the Norton, the razor should provide a comfortable shave, but it sounds like you are looking more for a finishing stone. With what you have now, try a few laps on the Swaty and see how you like it. I like it with lather for quick touchups.
Try chrom oxide after Norton 8K.
I had read the Swaty was about a 12K. I do notice a more polished edge after using the Swaty, as opposed to the 8k.
None of them :)
If you first learn to hone until you can shave off the 8K, then you will benefit from going higher. Walk before running :) A colleague of mine has started woodworking, and he told me that he only started making progress after he realized that he should first learn to use basic tools properly until he could use those. After that his progress was much better.
The same applies to honing and restoration.
I can shave off an 8k.
It is just more comfortable with the Swaty.
If I got to the point where the 8K was more comfortable, what benefit would there be to going higher?
At first you don't have to mad at us.Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
What we say is This.
your 8k norton should give to you comfortable shave and i would go head to say better edge then swaty.
What happens is this.
your blade sharpened by someone to shave ready condition . you use this blade sometime then when it gets dull you use swaty and edge comes back to sharper stage.
This makes you think swaty is better then norton 8k,
in reality it isn't.
i don't know from where or whom you got information swaty is 12 . it is just not correct.
That is why Bruno mention to you try to get maximum out of your 8k.
Now if you like to get maximum out of your 8 k which you will have comfortable shave
i hope this will help you and i was polite enough.Quote:
Please don't use any pressure while you are making your last 15-20 strokes on 8k norton. check the edge and still dull do same 15 strokes without pressure.check the edge again and so on until you will see as soon as edge touches hairs they fall off.
gl
First of all I am not mad. A little frustrated, but not mad. Frustrated cause my question is not being answered and is contradicting other posts in threads on this website. I read all the time of people honing on 8k then on a 12 k, then on a 16k, then on Angels farts for a finish.
Yes ultimately I should be able to get my skill to a point where I can split the hairs on a gnats eyelash with an 8k hone, but I am not there. So therefore I would like to be able to shave with comfort until my skills improve, and not walk around looking like a blushing idiot with red cheeks.
I appreciate the help and knowledge in getting my honing skills up to snuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
Sounds like you still need practice with the str8, if your getting irritation. You should get "Comfortable" shaves off an 8k, easy...
Higher grit hones will not make up for poor technique. Sorry...
Why do you say my technique is bad? I get perfectly comfortable shaves, after finishing my hone on a higher grit than the 8k, so how can I have bad technique?
Swaty Stones for finishing - Straight Razor Place ForumsQuote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
Mentor Zib posted that.....
I still find honing a bit of a black art.
Although I have put some killer smooth edges on razors in my time, this has been more luck than judgement. Each razor seems to have it's own personality.
I recently had a razor pro hone by Gary Haywood and when I got it back I felt pathetic, but in a good way, that razor was bad ass sharp.
What I used to consider a good shave, I am no longer satisfied with.
Such is the honing bug, the price of poka keeps going up for me.:needcoffee:.
We are not perfect. Every single of us could make a mistake. typing etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
In General barber hones doesn't have grits.
that grits people (we are) making compare to rest of the stones.
when they make barber hones there is process which will be similar to pressing.
depends how much force used and time stone will act differently.
Lets say we test 10 swates.
8 of them will be 8k level and 1 will be 6 next one 12k.
This is why we cannot say (same as norton,shaptons) all swaty has 8k or 12 k etc level.
All conversation is approximately.
hope this helps.
Let me rephrase my original question.
Does anyone know the relative grits of an Edlis and a Swaty Barber hone?
I promise I will never use them, and will only ever shave with razors from an 8K stone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
Mentor Zib didn't make it up, It was in the WIKI. I was just providing a link for someone....To be honest, I thought Swaty's were around 12k, not 8k...
As far as your technique, You stated..."Yes ultimately I should be able to get my skill to a point where I can split the hairs on a gnats eyelash with an 8k hone, but I am not there. So therefore I would like to be able to shave with comfort until my skills improve, and not walk around looking like a blushing idiot with red cheeks.
I appreciate the help and knowledge in getting my honing skills up to snuff."
Red cheeks sound like irritation to me from pressing to hard...but if I misunderstood, Apologies...
I don't suggest that you made it up. I hope my posts don't suggest otherwise.
I tend to agree with you that it is definitely a finer stone than an 8K. I come to this conclusion from looking at the edge through a 60x loupe as I progress through my hones. How much finer, I can't say because I have nothing else to compare it to.
Alright, here's my take on the matter.
First, what folks are talking about is how it was explained to me. If you can't get a great shave off an 8k, then it's the honer and not the hone. If you ARE already getting great shaves from the 8k, then you're ready to move on and only you get to decide when you're ready. It's sorta like the, 'the hone will come when the student is ready' philosophy.
On to barber hones, IMHO, you'll be better served with a larger desk hone instead of the barber hone. Go pick up a Chinese natural if you're interested in honing. It takes alot of laps to bring out that edge, but it's practice time on the hone. 100 laps on a Chinese stone will teach you honing much faster than a Naniwa 12k at 10 laps.
I am going to hold you to this promise! ;) Without getting quasi technical I am going to say the following. Not only is it science but also personal preference, everybodies beard and technique are different. Obviously from your posts you are getting a good edge from the 8k and are looking to do even better, enter the two new stones. The barber hones are meant for touchups and are a PITA to do any serious honing, , personally I think it would take too much work to get the superior edge you are looking for but the barber hones will work to some degree. I would suggest a stone in the 12k range would give you what you are looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
The only way to know which of your barber hones gives the finer edge is for you to experiment and then you tell us. Many are familiar with the swaty, the other I have never heard of and am not able to make a comment. I hope this eases some of the frustration. Good luck and have fun!
Never heard of the second hone and the grit of a Swaty can only be guessed at. From the info I have the finest grit size available & used in those days was a grade called 1200F. To use an analogy... it was put thru a sieve that allowed all grains 1200 grit and finer to pass thru. From the size distribution graphs I have seen this corresponds to about 6000-8000 grit by todays standards. But... as Hi_bud_gl mentioned, there were additional processes performed in the making of some barber hones that would reduce that grain size. If those processes were used to make the Swaty I do not know.
Hope this helps,:)
Let's go back to the question of the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by souschefdude
I basically think most of us never compared both hones directly. I am afraid souschefdude has to find out himself. And please report the results of his efforts on this forum. Grit size isn't everything. Spiked honing particles give a different result from rounded particles (e.g. diamond hones will give a less smooth edge than the garnets of coticules). For relatively hard steel a relatively soft hone is recommended and vice versa. Even the lubricant used makes a difference some say. E.g. kerosine or honing oil is said to give a smoother edge than water. I do not like using oil as it clogs up the pores. So I cannot say this from personal experience. Using slurry makes a difference as well, coticule slurry tends to downsize the grit value of the hone.
I hope this helps.