Lapping Eschers - scratches on surface w/ DMT325

Printable View

11-26-2010, 10:17 PM
BladeRunner001

Lapping Eschers - scratches on surface w/ DMT325
Hi guys,
I have an Escher (Y/G) which I got from Jimmy a few months back and I love this stone. The edges are unreal and the feedback is fantastic. I have lapped this thing with a DMT325 and it is flat as they can get, but I have noticed some scratches on the surface of the stone (nothing deep, but you can visibly see) and I can't seem to get rid of it. A few questions for you pros out there
1. How can I get rid of them?
2. Is this the result of me sing the DMT325? If so, what lapping stone do you guys recommend
I read somewhere that scratches can affect the edges...I haven't experienced any adverse effects based on shave tests...I just want to make sure I use the appropriate medium for lapping this beautiful stone and not end up ruining it over time.

Thanks in advance guys.
11-26-2010, 10:30 PM
Utopian

In my opinion, scratches in the hone represent a negative honing surface and have no impact on the edge at all.

The cause is high diamonds in your DMT plate. Over time they will wear down and your plate will then cut more uniformly. In the mean-time, you can put a more fine piece of wet/dry sandpaper (400 to 600 or higher on top of the DMT to use it as a lapper to remove the scratches.
11-26-2010, 10:34 PM
Scipio

I have a couple of Eschers and a couple of thurries. Not always, but sometimes you just get these scratches. I find that use of a slurry stone gets rid of them, as would a finer DMT. I have this problem using my 325 on Charnleys, but I think you're fine, especially if you are getting great edges.
11-26-2010, 11:03 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

In my opinion, scratches in the hone represent a negative honing surface and have no impact on the edge at all.

The cause is high diamonds in your DMT plate. Over time they will wear down and your plate will then cut more uniformly. In the mean-time, you can put a more fine piece of wet/dry sandpaper (400 to 600 or higher on top of the DMT to use it as a lapper to remove the scratches.

+1, I use the 325 too and I ignore the scratches. I've seen Randy post that he goes all the way up to 1k wet & dry sandpaper lapping his but I've never done so.
11-26-2010, 11:09 PM
BladeRunner001

Thanks guys :)...this was very informative.

I'll leave it alone and not worry. I may at some point, try what Ron suggested with the wetordry sandpaper of higher grit and see if that helps.
11-27-2010, 12:18 AM
gssixgun

Take a long screwdriver or any long piece of round metal, and run it up and down the DMT a few times, use moderate pressure, that should knock up any high diamond points.. Lapping a Swaty or two will do it also... :D
11-27-2010, 12:22 AM
holli4pirating

I take out the scratches from my DMT325 by rubbing the stone with another, already lapped, hard, nonporous stone. A barber's hone works very well.
11-27-2010, 12:28 AM
BladeRunner001

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Take a long screwdriver or any long piece of round metal, and run it up and down the DMT a few times, use moderate pressure, that should knock up any high diamond points.. Lapping a Swaty or two will do it also... :D

Thanks Glen...I feel like I been using my DMT for awhile and it doesn't seem to have the same ""rough" surface anymore...It feels much smoother (compared to when new). Do you think high points can linger if this is the case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I take out the scratches from my DMT325 by rubbing the stone with another, already lapped, hard, nonporous stone. A barber's hone works very well.

Dylan,
You rub the DMT with the Barber's hone and not the Escher, right? Or do you mean rubbing teh Escher with the barber's hone (already lapped with DMT)? I don't have a barber's hone. Any other substitute without having to invest in one? I have Naniwas (I don't think these will do, will they?)
11-27-2010, 12:41 AM
holli4pirating

I rub the two hard hones together (so barber hone on escher - or whatever else is scratched). Though a barber's hone can also be good for breaking in a DMT.

I would not suggest using a Naniwa, because they are on the softer side.

You use some higher grit sandpaper - something in the 400-600 range would probably do it.
11-27-2010, 12:49 AM
BladeRunner001

Quote:

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I rub the two hard hones together (so barber hone on escher - or whatever else is scratched). Though a barber's hone can also be good for breaking in a DMT.

I would not suggest using a Naniwa, because they are on the softer side.

You use some higher grit sandpaper - something in the 400-600 range would probably do it.

Got it...thanks Dylan for the clarification. I do have some of this finer sandpapers (they are black but say wetordry) you suggest...That is also what Ron suggested. I will give it a try tonight or tomorrow.
12-01-2010, 04:31 AM
BladeRunner001

Sorry for the delay guys...I didn't get a chance to do this until a last night. I tried what Dylan and Ron suggested using 400-600 grit sandpaper. The scratches are 70% gone. I will give it more soon. Maybe under water this time?
12-01-2010, 04:36 AM
JimmyHAD

FWIW, I've always lapped mine with the 325 and never noticed the scratches until you posted about it. Scratches taken into account, I prefer to wear my Eschers down honing razors. YMMV. :rofl2:
12-01-2010, 04:43 AM
BladeRunner001

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

FWIW, I've always lapped mine with the 325 and never noticed the scratches until you posted about it. Scratches taken into account, I prefer to wear my Eschers down honing razors. YMMV. :rofl2:

You're right Jimmy...I was just curious if it would make a difference and I haven't felt it in shaving.

As Ron said, it's negative honing surface so it should not affect the edge
12-01-2010, 04:48 AM
JimmyHAD

Y'know Robert when I got the GDLP and found out, shortly thereafter, that it was 325 grit I figured if that was good enough for a two hundred + dollar lapping plate it was good enough for me. Lapping on up to 1k, like I know at least a couple of guys do, might be worth it in the final edge quality but I've never done it myself.
12-01-2010, 06:31 AM
JimR

Just for gits and shiggles, I took a very dark Jnat I had, that always showed those scratches after lapping, and decided I'd get them the heck out.

Starting on 400 Diamond up to 1000, then 1500 paper, 2000 paper, then 3000 lapping powder, then 10000 lapping powder. The spurface of that stone GLEAMED, not a scratch in sight...

Until I used it again.

Now, I just lap up to 600 paper.
12-01-2010, 05:39 PM
holli4pirating

Did usage take off the gleam or actually put scratches back into your hone, Jim?
12-01-2010, 05:48 PM
gssixgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR

Just for gits and shiggles, I took a very dark Jnat I had, that always showed those scratches after lapping, and decided I'd get them the heck out.

Starting on 400 Diamond up to 1000, then 1500 paper, 2000 paper, then 3000 lapping powder, then 10000 lapping powder. The spurface of that stone GLEAMED, not a scratch in sight...

Until I used it again.

Now, I just lap up to 600 paper.

Hehehe I am with ya Jim, I tried the high grit ladder for lapping too, I actually did it twice on two different finishers, found no difference in the shave and never did all that work again... Basically just what Ron said too..:idea:
12-01-2010, 05:59 PM
Stubear

It genuinely never occured to me to use a higher grit than 325 when I started honing. Guys said to me "Get the 325 as a lapping plate" so I did, used it, found it worked fine and I liked the edges so I just stuck with it.

Glad to hear theres no real difference in the edges! :)
12-01-2010, 08:43 PM
MODINE

A great stone. A 1200 DMT or Atoma. I use the Atoma to form a slurry and help keep my Y/G nice and smooth. Like a stick of butter. I do not think it makes any difference in performance I just like the way the stone looks after I'm done with it.
Mike
12-02-2010, 12:01 AM
JimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Did usage take off the gleam or actually put scratches back into your hone, Jim?

I hesitate to call them scratches now, as they can't be felt with either the finger or the edge of the razors, they're visible lines in the surface of the stone.
12-02-2010, 01:33 AM
Lynn

I have used both the DMT 325 and Shapton GDLP on mine and right now it has some scratch marks (deep) in it from fixing a couple of light tip divits on a couple of razors. It still works great!! Don't know what it is about this stone, but it is my ultimate finisher on all the razors I hone. I just have never found a hone that could provide the final edges like the Escher gives. I am not sure what strata it is from. Maybe the abra cadabra semi doodigodliopiliac layer. Ya never know. I would use this hone if it were bowed like a saddle.

Have fun,

Lynn
12-02-2010, 01:42 AM
Utopian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

I would use this hone if it were bowed like a saddle.

And that will be in what? Two, maybe three, more years?
12-02-2010, 01:43 AM
zib

I wondered who bought that 700.00 Escher....