Bester, Sigma Power, Ha No Kuromaku etc...

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12-31-2010, 03:47 AM
onimaru55

Bester, Sigma Power, Ha No Kuromaku etc...

Any of you guys using any of these or other stones on razors ?

I know the Norton , Naniwa, Shapton GS stones are the most popular synthetics here but I've had a brief play with a Bester 2k & the J~Shaps in 5 & 12k. Was most impressed with speed, finish & hardness..

Any other experiences out there ? .
12-31-2010, 06:43 AM
JimR

I've used the Ha no Kuromaku 12k, and i prefer the naniwa stones. I had a lot of trouble with stiction on mine, and it felt like the particle distribution was uneven...the swarf was concentrated in little points, rather than evenly spread across the stone.

As far as I can tell, the ha no Kuromaku are the same stones as the pros. they have the same specs and color scheme, anyway.
12-31-2010, 07:33 AM
onimaru55

Thanks Jim. I'll try & borrow these again & watch for the things you mentioned but IIRC my little Genco test razor honed nicely with no stiction. I must try a wedge tho.
12-31-2010, 02:57 PM
Nikolay

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimR

I've used the Ha no Kuromaku 12k,

me too.

Ha no Kuromaku (AKA Shapton) are developed for woodworking tools
like planes and chisels

they are very good for this role, because they keep the form better than other artificial stones (but glazes)

finest Shaptons like 8000, 12000 and 30000 are not as good as natural japanese stones (=jnats) while their price is comparable to jnats

As for edge finishing I'd definitely prefer jnats.
Jnats give better edge holding, better control while sharpening and so on :)

Curently I sold both my Shaptons 12000 and 15000 (same as 12000 but for USA market) and got some more jnats ( thanks to JimR )

Comparing NANIWA Chosera and Shapton Pro I think NANIWA is better for general sharpening (knives, etc), while Shapton Pro are better for woodworking tools (if you use sharpening withhoning guide (fixture).

So I bought a bunch of NANIWAs for primary sharpening and jnats for finishing.
12-31-2010, 05:07 PM
Utopian

Maybe this should be moved to the Hones section?
12-31-2010, 06:23 PM
Bob44

I use a sigma power 120 grit. It cuts fast regardless of the type of steel. It's perfect when you have a pile of tools that all need new bevels angles. I would not use it on a razor though--unless I needed to remove a very deep nick.

My next investment is going to be a sigma 8k. According to tools from japan, you can jump from 1k to 8k without problems--it would really simplify my sharpening process.
12-31-2010, 06:27 PM
Utopian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob44

My next investment is going to be a sigma 8k. According to tools from japan, you can jump from 1k to 8k without problems--it would really simplify my sharpening process.

I know you said that you wouldn't use the 120 grit on a razor, but are you proposing jumping from 1k to 8K on razors?
12-31-2010, 06:32 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

Maybe this should be moved to the Hones section?

Good idea and done. :)
12-31-2010, 06:45 PM
Memorael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utopian

I know you said that you wouldn't use the 120 grit on a razor, but are you proposing jumping from 1k to 8K on razors?

Ive gone from, dmt xc to jnat and had 0 problems. You should try it.
12-31-2010, 06:50 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memorael

Ive gone from, dmt xc to jnat and had 0 problems. You should try it.

I haven't tried that so I can't say anything from experience. I would think you would have to spend a lot of time on the finisher to make up for skipping the intermediate stones ?

One more thought, Sham (hi_bud_gl) and I were talking once and he pointed out that if you go to an Escher or an expensive J-nat, coticule ..... whatever finisher, you are wearing the expensive stone with work that could be accomplished with a cheaper and easily replaceable synthetic. Made sense to me and I've changed my honing practices accordingly.
12-31-2010, 07:06 PM
Bob44

I was mainly interested in jumping from 1k to 8k on knives and chisels, but I'm going to try it on my razors too.

I'm hoping that going from 1k to 8k with the sigma will decrease honing time. If it turns out using a 4k intermediate stone is faster, then I'll stick with my current system. Also, there are some stainless knives that my shaptons wont touch. I end up having to switch to dmt's for those. If the sigma 8k works equally well on the types of steel the 120 grit sigma works on, I wont need to switch hones for different types of metal.
12-31-2010, 11:22 PM
onimaru55

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I haven't tried that so I can't say anything from experience. I would think you would have to spend a lot of time on the finisher to make up for skipping the intermediate stones ?

One more thought, Sham (hi_bud_gl) and I were talking once and he pointed out that if you go to an Escher or an expensive J-nat, coticule ..... whatever finisher, you are wearing the expensive stone with work that could be accomplished with a cheaper and easily replaceable synthetic. Made sense to me and I've changed my honing practices accordingly.

All excellent points here. Altho a lot of j-nat finishers can be hard stones. I would imagine wear & dishing would occur with that kind of use.
Even So fro Japan tool recommends synthetics up to 2-4k to preserve j-nats for what they do best ie mid to end stage.
12-31-2010, 11:33 PM
onimaru55

Thanx for the replies so far guys. I'm really interested in experiences on particle consistency & finish of these synthetics on razors. We could probably leave the j-nats out to keep on topic, tho I'm easily distracted when it comes to j-nats :)