Shapton vs Naniwa

I have been looking to expand my hone inventory for a couple of weeks. Right now I only have a Norton 4k/8k and a Shapton 16k glass. I love my Shapton, and I do not really want to replace that. However, I am looking for a lower grit to set bevels, and to replace my Norton with higher quality hones. I am curious of peoples opinion of Shapton vs Naniwa. Price point between the two is not really an issue. I know I will like the Shapton but I have not experienced the Naniwa yet so I'm unsure as to how good they are.

I "think" that the Naniwa 1K may be a little more gentle on the spine, but other than that it's one of those preference things...I like the GS stones personally as it "seems" to take me less time to hone a razor with them.

I use shapton glass 220, 1x, 4x and 8x hones. I also have a naniwa ss 220, so my comparison is going to be a little limited.

Comparing the shapton 220 to the naniwa 220, the naniwa has better feedback, eats metal faster and works up a nice slurry. The only downside is that it wears faster than the shapton. The shapton 220 is a slower cutter and has no feedback, but it stays very flat.

The shapton 1x is okay. I can see it working, but I can't feel it; same goes for the 4x and 8x. When these wear out, I'm not going to buy new ones. From what I've read, naniwa chosera 1x, bester 1x and king neo 800 grit are fast cutters, relatively dish resistant and have good feedback.

I think, sigma, naniwa chosera, bester, king neo and kitayama offer more stone for the money compared with shapton.

:dropjaw: I very seldom use a 220, only for chipped blades or those heavy old sheffields. They really eat some steel in a hurry. I've always taken the minimalist approach if at all possible.

I think the only advantage you would have staying with an all Shapton line up is that they are all relatively very hard stones to each other. This might make honing a bit faster being that the flater bevels will match up as you move up the grits.
Having said that it seems like many here like the softer edge provided by the softer stones.

There really is no "upgrading" from the Nortons. They are high quality hones that perform very well. I do prefer the Naniwas to the Nortons, but that is more a metter of feedback, but partly because they are a bit gentler on the razors.

For a 1k, I think the Norton is fantastic. The only one I like more is the Chosera. I find the Naniwa softer than I like, but I hone a lot. I haven't used the Shapton, so I can't comment on that. I really don't go under 1k much.

Don't replace the norton it is an awesome stone! If you want just get a bevel setting, either a naniwa SS 1K or a Shapton 1K and see how you like them.

I can imagine using my Norton until it wears to nothing...

I should clarify to those who tihnk I am 'throwing away' my Norton. I have no intention to let it fall into disuse. I sharpen my kitchen knives at home as well, and simply want two different sets of hones for each. Being that I really like my Shapton and there is no need to take a kitchen knife to that degree (in my humble opinion) I wanted to dedicate my Norton to my kitchen knives.
I don't want to say it's a bad stone, in fact I really like it. It's just that I have heard that the Naniwa and Shapton are better, and I tend to want to upgrade the stones for my razors.

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

I think the only advantage you would have staying with an all Shapton line up is that they are all relatively very hard stones to each other. This might make honing a bit faster being that the flater bevels will match up as you move up the grits.
Having said that it seems like many here like the softer edge provided by the softer stones.

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What do you mean by softer edge?

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Originally Posted by 8BallAce

What do you mean by softer edge?

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Softer stone conform more to bevel shape as they give. Shaptons are relatively very hard and produce very flat bevel shape, and for some harsher finish.

I had a complete set of Shapton GS stones. One of the things guys like about the Shaptons is the way they let you know that you're done with that particular grit; the abrasive sensation tends to go away, and the blade feels like it is getting sucked to the surface of the stone. The honing sensation, the way the blade gets sucked to the stone, and the way the water changes how it rolls in front of the edge as it's moved down the hone let you know that yup, it's time to move to the next grit.

That's not to say that the quality of the edge from a Shapton 4k is going to be any better than a Norton 4k, it's just the way the hone feels as your using it is so nice.

To me, hones are like cars: they'll all get you to the destination. Some just have a nicer ride along the way than others.

The thing I like Shaptons lower grits is that they don't go out of shape so easily as other stones while still cutting very quick. Having said that, the 1k stone would be as low as I would go for a razor in bad shape.

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Shaptons are relatively very hard and produce very flat bevel shape, and for some harsher finish

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That´s a very bold thing to say, right there.
This is a theory, I guess?

Wouldn´t that make for really harsh edges on superhard J-Nat Nakayamas?

I´ve been using the Shapton GS set for awhile now and compared the 30k
thoroughly to my Nakayama Kiita and must say they are both just absolutely over the top.
I don´t think one could actually say "shaptons produce harsh edges".
I stick with the saying honers produce harsh edges :)

I have owned a complete (except for the 12k) Naniwa Super set,
currently own a almost complete Shapton Pro set, and a close enough to say it is complete Glass Set including the 30k.

The Pro 12k and GS 16/30k are not easy stones to use.
Whereas the Superstone 10k gives a perfect edge almost no matter what you do,
the Shaptons can be really bitchy but will get you where you want to go.
All of the stones mentioned are very good in all ranges.
There´s hardly a setup I would not recommend.

Just choose and be happy (and curious about the other sets, of course)

Food for thought; when I had my only shapton, the 16K, I didn't like it at all. The edge felt very harsh and chippy when I used it.

Now this may very well be my inexperience with the hone but I never have this on my stones, not even Hard Nakayama and Oozukus. I have taken more time learning these other stones over the Shapton which I think may have lead to these problems.

Food for thought.

I have a full set of Shapton GS, Naniwa Super, Naniwa Chosera, Norton and a variety of natural finishing stones and barber hones. I got ride of my Shapton Pro's and Kityama and King's a while ago, although I have a bunch of individual hones hanging around. All of these stones that I currently am using can produce pretty credible edges on their own, but I still like the 10 strokes of .5 micron diamond spray on felt as my final finish before stropping. All of these stones have their own feedback characteristics.

I love going off each set of stones to different finishers including the Naniwa Super Stone 12K, Nakayama Kiita, Asagi, Ohzuku (the stone, not the mine), Escher, Coticule, Charnley Forest and even a Chinese 12K. All produce very nice edges. Some a little more coarse than others. Some a with a little less consistency than others. The Chosera 10K for me is always a relatively coarser finish, but a little CrOx helps here. Yes you can finish a razor on a barber hone, but I have found them to be the least consistent of all my hones. When they hit though, they can be nice.

Actually, if you like to play, start experimenting with changing to different hones throughout your processes. In addition, I recommend playing with using your naturals after bevel setting to hone a razor from start to finish.

Bottom line is that I'm not sure what is better. I find so much personal preference involved and certainly your skill levels comes into play in a large manner here. The more I see zealots proclaiming any particular hone, the more I personally feel the motivation is not about honing or helping people to find enjoyment and success in this art.

I find that the more I experiment and I hone a ton of razors almost every single day of my life, the more I continue to learn.

Have fun,

Lynn