ARE THERE NO NEW NEW HONES?

:confused:Are there no new barber hones being made?,Are there no new source of natural hones being mined except coticules? I saw some newly mined "Escher's" on one site,but I read somewhere that there not as good as the original ones. Isn't there a supply of new stones that don't cost a fortune,aren't in Japanese and can be bought by us average guys and be assessed by the people here who can compare them to the stones of old and tell the rest of us whether they are good or not. It seems to me there are plenty of river and lots of rock hounds,and no shortage of buyers of such items,anybody out there got a thought?
Thanks for your input,
Griz

There are lots of synthetic hones that are currently in production.

Old barbers hones were man made back in the day and are no longer made but are all over ebay and don't cost much money.

The Chinese 12K is a natural stone and it's cheap a lot of the guys here use it as a finisher and like it as a finisher.

Norton 4/8k is still out there and it's the best hone I can think of for that kind of money it does it all.

What ever happened with the CrOx hone that someone was working on? Seems like I read about that a WHILE ago with no updates...

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Originally Posted by avatar1999

What ever happened with the CrOx hone that someone was working on? Seems like I read about that a WHILE ago with no updates...

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The fellow that was working on that is still trying to perfect it. I expect we may see something come of it before too much longer. Like disburden said, that norton 4/8 is hard to beat for the price.

Griz,

I tend to use the Spyderco UF ceramic hone as 'substitute barber hone'.

It does very well (for me) in that role :)

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

What exactly are your criteria here?

If you're only interested in natural hones, well, Arkansas hones are American...and Cotis aren't Japanese, and neither are the Chinese hones. There are Israeli hones, too.

But really, I think you overestimate the market potential of straight shavers, balanced against the not inconsiderable expense of finding, mining, polishing, evaluating and distributing rocks.

Just get a nice artificial hone.

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Originally Posted by JimR

Just get a nice artificial hone.

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The horror.

The... horror....

My son worked with a sushi chef that used the back of a porcelain dinner plate, the rim or foot portion where it's not glazed to refresh his knives. This was just a light touch every so often and not an actual sit down and sharpen session.
The world is full of old dishes, you could have a sharpening plate from every country. alx

This is what my wifes mom did when she was growing up and what my wife still does.

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Originally Posted by alx

My son worked with a sushi chef that used the back of a porcelain dinner plate, the rim or foot portion where it's not glazed to refresh his knives. This was just a light touch every so often and not an actual sit down and sharpen session.
The world is full of old dishes, you could have a sharpening plate from every country. alx

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What exactly is a fortune for you?

I can think of at least four still mined natural hones that are cheaper than 50$. Dragons Tongue, BBW, BM-Schiefer(not totally sure, though), german hones (From MST, for example). Even coticules, if 125 x 40 mm is big enough for you.

Regards,
tok

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Originally Posted by Evritt

The horror.

The... horror....

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Come back Marlon... LOL

MIke

I've gotta echo something Disburden said: the Chinese 12k is magnificently cheap ($20 for a 8x2x1), gives a great edge with water only, gives a decent cut with slurry, and will live forever, as big as it is. I use it, personally.

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Originally Posted by JimR

What exactly are your criteria here?

If you're only interested in natural hones, well, Arkansas hones are American...and Cotis aren't Japanese, and neither are the Chinese hones. There are Israeli hones, too.

But really, I think you overestimate the market potential of straight shavers, balanced against the not inconsiderable expense of finding, mining, polishing, evaluating and distributing rocks.

Just get a nice artificial hone.

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Thanks Jim,
I didnt think I needed to be so literal here. I not a new comer to shaving with a straight,Ive used one for more years than I care to admit,the point I was making ,or tring to make was that why is it that noboby makes a barber hone anymore,they were $1 and now you can pay $30 for a chipped Swaty,and Im sure that people in the stone business could get something like an Escher if they wanted to,but do they still exist? I have a set of Nortons and a Coti and a c12,and am awaiting a thurigen from one of the stores Ive seen here,but,I would love to play with an Escher,or a tam,Oshanty,or any or the old ones that some of the members here rave about. On another note,the Israilie(sic) stone that was mentioned I believe they are called a Covenant stone,I had contacted a dealer in them and was told they werent good for straights. I was just trying to understand why nobody is making something like the Swaty,if it cost a buck back in the day ,then I think I would pop for $30 for a new one with no problem. The other point was are there no other natural stones that work well that arent in the hundreds of dollars.
Thanks for all the responces
Griz

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Originally Posted by alx

My son worked with a sushi chef that used the back of a porcelain dinner plate, the rim or foot portion where it's not glazed to refresh his knives. This was just a light touch every so often and not an actual sit down and sharpen session.
The world is full of old dishes, you could have a sharpening plate from every country. alx

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That would work if you were going to use your razor to cut sushi.... ;)

Part of the reason, if I remember correctly, is the lady that had the recipes died and took them with her to the grave.


More realistically though, The market is not there to justify the cost to R&D/manufacturer/market. The synthetic stones we buy today are not manufactured with straight razors in mind. Luckily for us people still need knives and tools to be sharp.

If they were being made, I would guess new ones probably be $20-$30. The only place I can really see new barber hones coming from is people like randy and charlie experimenting on a small scale.

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

Thanks Jim,
I didnt think I needed to be so literal here. I not a new comer to shaving with a straight,Ive used one for more years than I care to admit,the point I was making ,or tring to make was that why is it that noboby makes a barber hone anymore,they were $1 and now you can pay $30 for a chipped Swaty,and Im sure that people in the stone business could get something like an Escher if they wanted to,but do they still exist? I have a set of Nortons and a Coti and a c12,and am awaiting a thurigen from one of the stores Ive seen here,but,I would love to play with an Escher,or a tam,Oshanty,or any or the old ones that some of the members here rave about. On another note,the Israilie(sic) stone that was mentioned I believe they are called a Covenant stone,I had contacted a dealer in them and was told they werent good for straights. I was just trying to understand why nobody is making something like the Swaty,if it cost a buck back in the day ,then I think I would pop for $30 for a new one with no problem. The other point was are there no other natural stones that work well that arent in the hundreds of dollars.
Thanks for all the responces
Griz

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

Thanks Jim,
I didnt think I needed to be so literal here. I not a new comer to shaving with a straight,Ive used one for more years than I care to admit,the point I was making ,or tring to make was that why is it that noboby makes a barber hone anymore,they were $1 and now you can pay $30 for a chipped Swaty,and Im sure that people in the stone business could get something like an Escher if they wanted to,but do they still exist? I have a set of Nortons and a Coti and a c12,and am awaiting a thurigen from one of the stores Ive seen here,but,I would love to play with an Escher,or a tam,Oshanty,or any or the old ones that some of the members here rave about. On another note,the Israilie(sic) stone that was mentioned I believe they are called a Covenant stone,I had contacted a dealer in them and was told they werent good for straights. I was just trying to understand why nobody is making something like the Swaty,if it cost a buck back in the day ,then I think I would pop for $30 for a new one with no problem. The other point was are there no other natural stones that work well that arent in the hundreds of dollars.
Thanks for all the responces
Griz

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Part of the confusion is that you are starting by saying barber hones but then listing a number of naturals that, though they were popular with barbers, are not considered "barber hones."

What characteristic of the barber hones is it that you are after, anyway? The size? You could cut down something bigger. The price? If you're patient with ebay/classifieds/vendors you'll find something. The cut properties? Other synthetics cut very similarly, though they are made from different materials. I just don't see a void calling for a recreation of a barber hone, unless it can do something the current synthetics can't. Or if there is a market, it would be very small. The kitchen knife guys would probably pass because of the size, leaving just pocket knife and straight razor guys. Sure, there are a lot of us, but not a "big business" lot.

I'm also not so sure a recreation of a barber hone would be $30. The finer grit synthetic hones are always more expensive. A full sized Naniwa 12k is what? $70 or $80. A barber hone sized one may be 1/2 to 1/3 the size, but that doesn't mean that's what it would cost. Sort of how half portions at restaurants are at least 2/3 the price of the full portion. Or if a new hone company started or a current hone company wanted to recreate something more like the vintage barber hones, then there is the R&D, the tooling, the manufacture process, new packaging, advertising/marketing, etc etc. Very expensive. (This is also the reason Dovo doesn't do heavy grind razors - the start up cost just to get the first one out is huge.)

Personally, if my options were the current synthetic finishers (like the Naniwa 12k) or a barber hone sized synthetic finisher that cost 1/2 to 1/3 the price, I'd still prefer the Naniwa 12k. They'd cut about the same, but I prefer the bigger hone

I don't want to put words in grizzley's mouth, but I too would like to see a bunch of "new" naturals like the Chinese 12k. That stone has been around for > 5 years, it's cheap, and it works. The costs of producing it must be fairly low, and I'll bet there are deposits like this in other places where production costs are low (India, for example). I understand that it would be cost-prohibitive to open a new novaculite mine in (say) Tennessee, but an Indian 8k would be very interesting...

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Originally Posted by wsfarrell

I don't want to put words in grizzley's mouth, but I too would like to see a bunch of "new" naturals like the Chinese 12k. That stone has been around for > 5 years, it's cheap, and it works. The costs of producing it must be fairly low, and I'll bet there are deposits like this in other places where production costs are low (India, for example). I understand that it would be cost-prohibitive to open a new novaculite mine in (say) Tennessee, but an Indian 8k would be very interesting...

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Thanks -thats exactly what I ment ,although I put two thoughts in the same post,There must be some deposites that arent being used,and the barber hones are a different matter,I dont see them being that expencive to reproduce,If you know what they used in the first place

Unless you go somewhere with lots of cheap labor like china, it is probably not economically smart in most parts of the world to start mining rock for a niche market.

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

Thanks -thats exactly what I ment ,although I put two thoughts in the same post,There must be some deposites that arent being used,and the barber hones are a different matter,I dont see them being that expencive to reproduce,If you know what they used in the first place

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by alx

My son worked with a sushi chef that used the back of a porcelain dinner plate, the rim or foot portion where it's not glazed to refresh his knives. This was just a light touch every so often and not an actual sit down and sharpen session.
The world is full of old dishes, you could have a sharpening plate from every country. alx

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My brother is a pretty serious meatcutter/trapper, and he said the best edge he's ever seen on a knife comes from an old "ceramic" (no idea of the real material) insulating tube he pulled out of the wall of a house he helped tear down. The only problem is, it's only about 1\2 thick and 3 inches long.

There's one other thing about these hone discussions that bugs me-when they opened the mine where the Escher's were mined from people who had tried both (I hope) said they weren't the same, others liked them, Now being a natural hone some would necessarily be better than others,but no one has ever said (to my knowledge)
that they had a bad Escher which being a natural stone also doesn't make any sense, as they would have had some that were better than others,and being that they bring some hefty prices why aren't they still being mined,the place where I ordered my Thuringen from said that a new deposit on the west side was yielding some yellow-green stones that were softer like the original Escher's Sorry for the rambling but the whole thing can be very frustrating

Well, Escher was a company that sold Thurry's. It would stand to reason that Escher would be pretty selective in the material they would process and retail, so that is probably why they are all pretty darn good. The same seems to be true of all vintage Thuringians.

What I would speculate is happening with the new Thurinigians (I have no idea if this is true or not) is that the QC on their end is not so good, so there is more variation in quality with regards to what they sell. This can include lower grit hones and inclusions that can damage the edges.

I think I read here, in older threads, that the Escher mine was used as a modern times trash dump and is now a national park. Please correct me if wrong.

Acquisition of non-existent hones(NHAD).

The HAD is strong is this one.

I own a Frankonian hone, which comes from current mining. Not a lot of information out on this one, but I find it leaves a tad smoother edge over my escher with similar sharpness.

If you already own an escher or vintage thuri, it probably isn't going to do much for you. Lately though I've been reaching for it over my escher for finishing (along with my new Asagi).

As Evritt writes: the quarries were filled with rubble after WW 2.