in your opinion gent's what is the best synthetic finnishing stone i heard the kitayama 8000 was great any opinions thanks
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in your opinion gent's what is the best synthetic finnishing stone i heard the kitayama 8000 was great any opinions thanks
The Shapton 30k is pretty good.
If you ask for the very best synthetic, regardless of price and usefullness,
I would definitely go for the Shapton Glass 30k (I have not tested the Pro, but hear equally as good things)
The Gs 30k is absolutely over the top. Better than any synthetic I have used.
But do you really need one? No way.
You suggest the Kitayama 8.000, so I think you´re thinking about realy usefull synthetic finishers.
There are a couple of finishers that have exceedingly good finishing capabilities, totaly enough for anyone who likes sharp, smooth edges.
These are Shapton Glas 16k, Shapton Pro 12k, Naniwa Superstone 12k.
All of these are affordable and give you very, very good edges.
You will not need anything else.
Personally I can recommend the Naniwa Super 10k, as well.
But you should finish with a 0,5 Diamond or Chromiumoxide paste afterwards,
for really smooth results
Well, there isn't a best finishing hone in general but I lean towards the naniwa 12k as a synthetic finisher.
Using the slurry technique and diluting to water with light strokes really helps smooth the edge, I dig it.
I know you really don't want to hear what I have to say,,,
It depends on the razor, and your hands...
Give me a NY Extreme Hollow Grind and many Solingen razors and a set of Shaptons and I will give you the most wickedly sharp edge you can put on a razor and Silky smoothness, combined
Take the same set of stones and a Sheffield wedge and the edge will but Good but not Great, it would need tweaking after the stones to be more comfortable..
Personally, I find that the Naniwa SS are the most all around Synthetics and if I had to chose one set to hone all the razors I hone, that would be the one set with a 12k finish.. Note I did not say best, I said plays well with the most steels
Your hands come into play with the stones too.. The harder the surface to better the touch needs to be, the softer the surface the the more forgiving it is..
Again like most things in this hobby YMMV, and in asking for opinions normally you get whatever stone somebody likes for their razors, their face, and their honing style...
I've don't have the glass stones to compare but I do have the Shapton pro 15 and 30k. To be honest when using the Shaptons I most often stopped at the 15k. The 30k is nice though if you want to go for the $. You still need the 15 or 16 level to precede it though IMHO. The Naniwa 12k Superstone is awfully nice IME. Leaves me a very comfortable shaving edge equal to the shap 15k to my face. Never had any experience with the kitayama 8000 but the Norton 8k will give you a good edge to shave with if your whiskers and skin are anything like mine. I hear the Chosera 10k is great but it costs a pretty penny too.
I agree with Glen and Jimmy; the Naniwa SS 12k is a very versatile hone, cuts fast, and works well on a lot of different steel.
I would say the Naniwa 12k as well, used with a slight slurry if you like. Thats the best I've used so far..! :)
Hi Jimmy,
I often heard you say you stop at Pro 12k even if you have the choice to go up to the 30k. Is there any special reason for that?
I sold the pro 12k. Found out that is identical to the 15k which I kept. Apparently the 12k is supposed to be a Japan only product. Yes there is a reason for my stopping at the 15k level. I felt that it was good enough at the 15k. Things change though. As time passed and I tried various finishers I found that I liked the feel of the edge coming off of my Eschers better than that off of the 15k, the coticule or any other stone. Not necessarily sharper than that off of a 15k but more pleasing to me personally. So now more often than not I finish on one of a couple of Eschers and stop there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesslemming
Every now and again I will 'push the envelope' with the 15 and then the 30k but rarely. As I said, things change, and I might be using any one of a few finishers as my mood changes. There are also some razors that give me fits. An S30V custom for example. Trying to dial it in I've tried various combinations including finishing on the 30k. I've gotten it to shave well but not quite as well as I like so I keep trying. :o
sounds fair enough, Jimmy. Thanks for the response :)
I like the Naniwa 12k SS myself. It's my go to syn finisher. I prefer naturals, ie. Escher, Nakayama, Shoududani, etc.. I have a Shapton glass 16k that I rarely use. I personally don't like the edge imparted by the Shapton GS's, but that's me. I never bought the 30k, because I heard more bad than good. Shapton is an expensive synthetic hone. I'd rather spend my money on Diamond paste, it's a lot cheaper, and will give you a wicked sharp edge after your 12k. YMMV
thanks gents for all of the replys i love to hear others opinion's i have a few finnisher's on hand a ark translucent a shapton glass 16k stone a nakayama a thuringian a coti and a c-12 the shapton 16k gives me a harsh shave i think i'll try to soften the edge with crox i think i'll acquire a Escher next thanks gents
Glad to see all the love for the Naniwa 12K. Finally broke down and got mine from SRD yesterday. I've got a couple of razors that just don't respond to my arsenal of naturals (3 Nakayamas, couple of Thurris, multiple cotis, 12K). Hoping a synthetic will break the backs of those bad boys.
You also can reverse engineer with that set up, myself I switch to a natural finisher at the 8k synthetic level, but you can also go to the 12k Naniwa then do a natural finish after that... lots of ways to play...Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
Since I never had a synthetic finer than 8K, I always followed your way described above -- switched to a natural after the 8K for final finish. But some blades don't get right for me with that strategy -- frequently these are SS blades. My theory is that, while naturals are best for most edges, maybe there are a few that will respond better to a synthetic (again, maybe the SS?) So the Naniwa 12K is my latest experiment to see if this might be correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
BTW, this thinking is a corollary to your belief that certain razors love certain kinds of finishers. (I know you don't necessarily hold that SS is best finished on synthetics, though. Just trying to work it out for myself.)
Let us know how it works, at those levels of polishing sometimes it does come down to the touch, the razor, and the stone... So what works for me, might just need a slight tweak to give you the best feel...Quote:
Originally Posted by pcb01
I prescribe to the theory that you are shave ready at the 8k or equivalent level, and after that is all just polishing and FUN !!!!
I noticed no one had mentioned the Spyderco UF. Does the lapping scare everyone away from this stone, or does it just not measure up to the Shapton's and Naniwa's?
It is the only synthetic finisher I have, but now that I have the UF lapped I'm getting some decent results. I'm just hoping that its worth while after all the time I put into flattening it.
i have a spyderco uf too i just havent gotten around to flatten it
Just remember to wash the slurry/gratings off very often. I cut my lapping time in a third when I started to wash off the stones every 30 or 60 seconds. The first side I did under running water, and the second I just did wet, but with constant rinsing and it went MUCH faster. Basically, if I could see slurry I washed everything away. This is probably old news for the experienced guys here, but it made such a big difference I still thought it best to pass on.Quote:
Originally Posted by eleblu05
Loric,
Could you please post some details on how you flattened/lapped your Spyderco UF ? I was thinking about doing one side of mine.
Many thanks !
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
I'd be happy too. This was all flying by the seat of my pants as it was honestly the first stone I ever flattened. What works best for me was to draw your pencil marks on the Spyderco UF and wetting down the SUF and a DMT XXC and rubbing the XXC over the SUF. Slurry builds up fast, and clogs up the XXC so rinse this away as soon as you notice it. It wont look like much, but the more often you wash it off the faster the whole posses will go. The slurry will eventually wear the pencil marks off before the stone is flat, so assume you will have to re apply them at least once. It should be easy to tell what areas are being lapped off and what areas are just fading from the friction, but its an important thing to note.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatMan
After the XXC I could see and feel scratch marks so I did a touch up with my DMT XC and then C and it feels smooth and flat now. Though I'm not an expert and it could take a bit more to really polish it up. However the edges I get off of it are much much better now than before I lapped it. My particular SUF had these awful ridges from the factory lapping posses. Even as a novice I could feel the razor moving as it passed over them.
Both sides were similarly un-flat on my Spyderco and on the first I attempted to do as others suggested with the stones in a sink with water running over them. For me this went much much slower (3 hours as apposed to 75 min) as I dont think the slurry was washed away nearly as efficiently. I still made sure that both stones were always wet, and in fact washing the slurry away so often really prevented anything from drying out.
I hope that helps, let me know if I can clear anything else up. Just remember that even with good tools this will take ALOT of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loric
A Spyderco is a great way to ruin a DMT. Just sayin'.
Loric,
Many thanks for the gen :)
Luckily, my Spyderco UF is reasonably flat. I was looking to remove the 'grooving' on one side as I have heard some good things about lapped UFs.
Benjamin - many thanks for the warning !
Have fun !
Best regards
Russ
If you do things right, than no. You should be fine if you only use minimal pressure and much water.Quote:
Originally Posted by BKratchmer
If you flatten your Spyderco hone, you RUIN your Spydero hone. The hone is guaranteed to be flat. If you find that it is not, then exchange it for one that is. Never lap a Spyderco hone.
If by flat, you mean smooth, then that is another issue and it cannot be corrected by lapping. The Spyderco hone achieves its cutting capacity by those swirl marks that the factory has lapped into the hones. This is why the Spyderco F and UF are made of exactly the same material. Their only difference is created by the factory lapping.
I dont think its ruined, it still removes some metal, and does a nice job polishing. Did it remove more metal before I smoothed it, yes. However, I guess I was looking for a final polishing hone rather than something to go to right after my DMT EE. I'm still figuring things out, but for me the edge feels keener after the UF than it does straight off my Coticule, YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Signed the (apparently) reckless honer.
Spyderco UFs are great, but I think its best to think of them as polishers, that they improve the edges from other hones. They do sharpen, but they're really slow.
I lapped mine on a DMT 225. Both hones survived and recovered fine, though they still have problems looking each other in the eye. I prefer the surface of the lapped UF, I think it puts a smoother finish on.