Chinese hones: am I wasting my time??

Hello everybody,

As new into straights, I bought some chinese stones from ebay.de like 6 months ago, I didn't know by then.. Its a combo 4/8 synthetic and a 12k natural one. Since then, I've honed many razors with them: The 4k I use for a bevel setter and it doesn't take so much time after all, I think, to get the job done. The 12k is a very slow cutting stone but it seems to give a smooth polish in the end..

That way, I manage to give a sharp edge considering HHT and TPT and finally by the shaving test. The blade slides nicely, cutting through whiskers effortlesly, so I guess that's a descent result.

So, considering the fact I never used any Nani's or other popular stones to know what They can do, the question is: do I really lose some edge performance because of the low quality of the chinese hones or its just the extra time that it takes to hone a razor with them?? or better, Is a chinese ebay stone capable of giving a theoreticaly perfect edge on a blade? :confused:

cheers

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Originally Posted by Dalton

... That way, I manage to give a sharp edge considering HHT and TPT and finally by the shaving test. The blade slides nicely, cutting through whiskers effortlessly, so I guess that's a descent result.

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Sounds to me like you are doing just fine.
That sounds like what everybody wants to achieve in their honing efforts.

If these are the hones from open_razor, I think sham tested them and said they work fine.

Thanks for the replies, unfortunately I think they're not from open_razor, the combo 3/8 has the logo "Hanzo" on it, here's the link
Hanzo Schleifstein Wasserstein K 8000-3000 XXL+ Sockel bei eBay.de: Küchenmesser (endet 28.02.11 15:28:13 MEZ)
they claim that its oxide molded in ceramic and they suggest for using it for straights and other hard steel tools.

The 12k has been reviewed here before so I guess its descent..

I guess there's only one way to compare them with the real deal and that's by getting a nice pair of Naniwa and use them too

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Originally Posted by Dalton

The blade slides nicely, cutting through whiskers effortlesly, so I guess that's a descent result.

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Did you expect a better result from your time than that? If it took longer to get there than you like, then maybe you are wasting your time :shrug:

Part of the fun in the sharpening game is figuring out what works for you. Over the years I have seen all kinds of setups - PSA honing film on granite surface plates, natural hones from all over the world, all kinds of artificial hones, and lots of pasted strops. You have to figure out what works for you! There are subjective tests such as the HHT but when sharpening razors, the test I use is the shave test. Every face is different, every beard is different, and razors are wildly different one from the other. There are lots of variables. Chinese hones are too slow for me and I don't like them. I like a natural hone such as a belgian blue or a belgian coticule. The blue cuts really fast and leaves a nice polished edge. The Shaptons are a honing system and they cut fast and give unbelievable edges. They're what I use on my razors. I use a belgian blue on my axes and on my dull razors.

Howard

First off, I would forget the HHT. Try cutting arm hair to gauge your edge quality or the TPT. The HHT is a fun test but the results vary too much for it to be dependable in determining a shave ready razor. In the end, the shave test is the one that counts. As for your hones, if you are comfortable with the results why look elsewhere. If you are planning on honing for hire that's another story. Also, if you find the sport of honing one that you want to get into and have a budget to support it have at it. In the end it looks like you are pleased with the results and are not planning on honing scores of razors so be happy and enjoy your hones and your straight razors.

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Did you expect a better result from your time than that? If it took longer to get there than you like, then maybe you are wasting your time :shrug:

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Points taken.
But of course I've met some sharper edges honed by pro's, so I try to stimulate that level of sharpness by honing and honing for hours in those inexpensive stones. I just wanted to know if I will ever be able to get a close to those "ninja sharp" blades that come from professional equipment..

:OT Howard! Where have you been!

If you are not already, try using your 12K with slurry first. Seriously cuts down on the amount of strokes required to achieve smooth edge. Just my opinion, but if you a getting a great edge with the stones you have you may find it disappointing to spend big bucks only to find the differance very minimal...just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by norm67

If you are not already, try using your 12K with slurry first. Seriously cuts down on the amount of strokes required to achieve smooth edge. Just my opinion, but if you a getting a great edge with the stones you have you may find it disappointing to spend big bucks only to find the differance very minimal...just my 2 cents.

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Actually it gives pretty nice slur that little stone who was together with the 12k, IMHO. Then I use from 60 to 100 strokes and the polish with my little experience looks cute. On the other hand, I've never tried to hone on an Escher

From what I see on the opinions above, I think its a matter of personal preference on how that edge must be, and how long it can take for that to be achieved. I like honing so I will have to try to find the one stone good for me.
For example, up to now I have noticed, that a TI razor prof. honed on a naniwa 12k, felt too "sharp" for my skin so I sent it out again for smoothening on a natural finishing stone. The razors that I hone myself on the chinese, feel smoother, but they dont shave as close..

again, thanks for your points, gentlemen

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Originally Posted by Dalton

...I've met some sharper edges honed by pro's, so I try to stimulate that level of sharpness...

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If that's what you'r looking for try some chrome oxide on balsa or on a strop. Start with a few strokes and work your way up. Less is more here. Diamond spray or paste will also work.

Hanzo hones are Japanese going by the logo in the link provided.

Interesting post, norm67! I have a Chinese water hone on my ebay list and it comes with a small piece of stone too. I suppose it would be for creating a slurry. I also bought a small piece of Belgian Couticle that is on it's way to me (from ebay seller). I wonder if one could use that Couticle stone to create a slurry on the Chinese blue stone?

Of course you can use a coticule to raise a slurry on a Chinese 12K. However a coticule is guesstimated at 8-10K, so I wonder whether it makes sense to do so.

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Originally Posted by Kees

Hanzo hones are Japanese going by the logo in the link provided.

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You're absolutely right, how couldn't I notice that! :banghead::banghead:

I wish I could change the name of that thread...:w

Have you heard anything good about 'em??

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Originally Posted by Joed

If that's what you'r looking for try some chrome oxide on balsa or on a strop. Start with a few strokes and work your way up. Less is more here. Diamond spray or paste will also work.

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Plz correct me if I'm wrong but I feel that if I use CrOx in a paddle that I have from SRD the edge wears down by the first few strokes during the ATG last pass, on my barbwire whiskers.. It could be my technique, though.

I'm looking forward to try how CrOx works on the harder steel (c135) of that TI razor that I'm waiting for:rock:

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Originally Posted by Dalton

Have you heard anything good about 'em??

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Your post is the first time I read about them.

You got Hanzo to make you a hone?
I thought he swore an oath to never make one again.

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Originally Posted by Evritt

You got Hanzo to make you a hone?
I thought he swore an oath to never make one again.

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Well, looks like old Hanzo got you on that one, 'cause german ebay is full of them by now.

It sounds like you need to spend a little bit more time on the 8K and 12K between each shave.

New hones will not magically improve your honing skills. Spend more time with the hones you have and be patient in attitude and persistent in your efforts.

Now, to be useful. Try performing 10 laps on the 8K and 50 laps on the 12K between each shave. You should notice a gradual improvement in the edge.

Just my $.02,:)

Thanks Randydance that's what I'll do. I know that honing is not simple at all.

I was also very wrong on this one, I thought that I'm supposed to keep an edge at least a dozen of shaves before refreshing it..

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Originally Posted by Dalton

I was also very wrong on this one, I thought that I'm supposed to keep an edge at least a dozen of shaves before refreshing it..

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No, your not wrong. Try what I first suggested and if that does not work then drop back to the 4K. It just may be that the bevel is not fully developed. There really is no way of knowing at this point so try the least aggressive method first, 8K & 12K, then if that does not suffice you will need to drop back to the 4K and refine that bevel.

Hope this helps, :)

If you are gettign good shaves then i wouldent call it wastign you time.Thats what its all about.

interesting ready guys, i have a 12k on its way right now and really cant wait to have a finisher above my barbers hone . . . should be here any day now . . . with some other stuff. .. . . . just dont tell my wife, lol

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

No, your not wrong. Try what I first suggested and if that does not work then drop back to the 4K. It just may be that the bevel is not fully developed. There really is no way of knowing at this point so try the least aggressive method first, 8K & 12K, then if that does not suffice you will need to drop back to the 4K and refine that bevel.

Hope this helps, :)

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So, if I get this right, I will have to improve the structure of that edge periodically, by using a few strokes on the 8 and 12k, between each shave, instead of trying to do the whole thing again from the beginning (?)

If yes, that sounds a very interesting method and I'm so excited to try!:bow

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Originally Posted by Deerhunter1995

If you are gettign good shaves then i wouldent call it wastign you time.Thats what its all about.

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The thing is that I've noticed that those unknown stones are not the 1st, not even the 2nd choice of the members here in the forum, and there must be a reason for that, so that's where my suspicions came from.

I was in Bermuda studying the hones in the Bermuda Museum collection. I'll be writing an article for their magazine soon! Hones, to me, are where mineralogy, technology, tools, and history come together. Just LOVE it! Give me a call and we'll talk, 508-842-7132.

That is so cool, I'm looking forward to reading this article!

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Originally Posted by Howard

I was in Bermuda studying the hones in the Bermuda Museum collection. I'll be writing an article for their magazine soon! Hones, to me, are where mineralogy, technology, tools, and history come together. Just LOVE it! Give me a call and we'll talk, 508-842-7132.

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That sounds interresting. Please let us know when the article is finished, and where we can read it :D