from shapton pro 1000 to 5000 too high jump?

I am going to buy a shapton pro 1000 stone because
my naniwa ss 800 is too soft for me and too slow.

I also need a middle stone. I have a naniwa 3000ss.
It's a soft stone. Actually I am not sure if I need to
buy a new intermediate stone. I use 01, A2 and HSS
steel(plane blades). Anyone have an opinion on the naniwa 3000ss
on tougher steels like A2 and HSS? Should I replace
it?

My thought was:

Shapton pro 1000>getting a burr
intermediate stone?
Naniwa 8000ss >polishing
Okudo nashiji >finishing polishing

I am not interested in shapton pro 2000 stone. I would have liked
if Shapton had the pro stone in 3000 grit. So I am thinking of the
pro 5k, but the jump is quite big.

I was thinking if I used a low grit slurry(Iyo?)stone on the 5000,
that could make the jump easier and me not needing to spend
a lot of time on the 5000 stone.

Maybe I could even this low grit slurry stone a on the 8000SS and not needing an intermediate stone anyway?

I don't want to buy a stone that needs soaking. So either natural stone
or shapton pro. Naniwa SS are too soft.

Advise/help is appreciated.

Sharpman

A couple of thoughts.

You could use your Naniwa SS 3k in the middle between the 1k and the 5k if you want to. 5k is at the upper range of sharpening grits and, whilst you can make the jump from 1k to 5k, you'll probably find you have to spend a little more time on the 5k to remove the 1k marks. The 3k would help make the jump from 1k to 5k that bit easier. And the 3k works well on razors.

That said, its been my experience that Shaptons play best with other Shaptons, so jumping from Shapton 1k to Naniwa 3k to Shapton 5k to Naniwa 8k might start making things a little more unpredictable. Thats not to say you wont get a good edge, but when I experimented mixing up Shapton and Naniwa stones I didnt like the results as much as when I stuck with stones which were all the same make. JMHO of course and YMMV.

You are correct that the Naniwa SS's are soft stones and they tend to dish out quite quickly on heavy grinds or hard steels IME.

You say you are raising a burr on the 1k? Thats a knife sharpening technique and not suitable for razors. Its kinda overkill and you'll find that you remove way more metal than you need to that way, and adding all the pressure to get a burr will wear your spine away faster as well. You should be able to get the bevel set on a razor without raising a burr.

The slurry on the 5k could help make the progression from 1k to 5k easier, give it a try and see what you think..! :) I think you'd find using slurry on the 8k a step too far though. The 8k is a pretty slow cutter so going from 1k to 8k I would say is too much. You could do it, but you'll be honing on the 8k for about 15 years!

Hope thats of some help and let us know how you get on! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubear

A couple of thoughts.

You could use your Naniwa SS 3k in the middle between the 1k and the 5k if you want to. 5k is at the upper range of sharpening grits and, whilst you can make the jump from 1k to 5k, you'll probably find you have to spend a little more time on the 5k to remove the 1k marks. The 3k would help make the jump from 1k to 5k that bit easier. And the 3k works well on razors.

That said, its been my experience that Shaptons play best with other Shaptons, so jumping from Shapton 1k to Naniwa 3k to Shapton 5k to Naniwa 8k might start making things a little more unpredictable. Thats not to say you wont get a good edge, but when I experimented mixing up Shapton and Naniwa stones I didnt like the results as much as when I stuck with stones which were all the same make. JMHO of course and YMMV.

You are correct that the Naniwa SS's are soft stones and they tend to dish out quite quickly on heavy grinds or hard steels IME.

You say you are raising a burr on the 1k? Thats a knife sharpening technique and not suitable for razors. Its kinda overkill and you'll find that you remove way more metal than you need to that way, and adding all the pressure to get a burr will wear your spine away faster as well. You should be able to get the bevel set on a razor without raising a burr.

The slurry on the 5k could help make the progression from 1k to 5k easier, give it a try and see what you think..! :) I think you'd find using slurry on the 8k a step too far though. The 8k is a pretty slow cutter so going from 1k to 8k I would say is too much. You could do it, but you'll be honing on the 8k for about 15 years!

Hope thats of some help and let us know how you get on! :)

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Thanks for the reply Stubear.

I don't sharpen knives, razors. Only plane blades.

Yes I could use the 3000 SS before the 5k shapton, but that would
mean I would need using 5 stones. I don't like that. 4 should be
enough and preferrably 3.

I think I could do this:

1000 Shapton pro
Intermediate stone
Finish on okudo nashiji

The step from the intermediate stone(3000-5000)grit to
the fine finishing stone might be too big, but I can use a
small soft 8000 grit nagura stone to create 8000 grit
mud on the fine finishing stone. Sharpen on it and then
finish with only water.

What do you think?

Sharpman

Ah right, well thats outside my area of expertise! :D I've never sharpened a plane blade before but you wont need to get the same level of smoothness out of the blade because you're not putting it on your face.

What you're suggesting sounds fine to me, but you know more about this than I do..!

I'd also check out somewhere like British Blades or other knife forum. SRP is pretty specialised on aspects of razors and razor sharpening, and whilst there are guys here that do sharpen knives and planes and so on, there is less likely to be people here with the specific knowledge you are looking for.

I'm not a plane blade man either but I've owned all of the Shapton pros and the naniwa superstones. I would recommend the Chosera 1k, 5k and if you want to really get the creme de la creme, bite the bullet and get the 10k. Also, from what I understand the glass stone shaptons are harder than the pros. Might be more suitable for plane blades but I'm not sure. You might check out what guys have to say on Knife Forums. More similar to sharpening planes than razors. :gl:

A1 steels do better with the glass stones than pros. I think you can find a glass stone intermediate. Norton 4k also handles those steels.
The 2k pro and even the 1.5k pro is a completly different animal than the 1k and the "jump" is not what it looks like on paper.
I only have HSS steels on turning tools and then I use a Tormek or DMT options. Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I'm not a plane blade man either but I've owned all of the Shapton pros and the naniwa superstones. I would recommend the Chosera 1k, 5k and if you want to really get the creme de la creme, bite the bullet and get the 10k. Also, from what I understand the glass stone shaptons are harder than the pros. Might be more suitable for plane blades but I'm not sure. You might check out what guys have to say on Knife Forums. More similar to sharpening planes than razors. :gl:

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Jimmy, the okudo polishing stone I have is an excellent final stone,
so I don't(thank god) need the expensive chosera. Actually the okudo
was almost the same price now that I think about it.

The choseras need a drink as far as I know. I don't like that. That is why
I like the shapton pro.

The shapton glass is a white nice stone. You are right about that one. But
it is only 5mm thick vs the 15 of the pro. I have been told the the glass
version needs less flattening, but it definitely does not last as long as the pros.

Thanks.

Sharpman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kingfish

A1 steels do better with the glass stones than pros. I think you can find a glass stone intermediate. Norton 4k also handles those steels.
The 2k pro and even the 1.5k pro is a completly different animal than the 1k and the "jump" is not what it looks like on paper.
I only have HSS steels on turning tools and then I use a Tormek or DMT options. Hope this helps.

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A1=A2?

Are you saying that the 2k pro could be the middle stone between
the 1000 and the final polishing stone? Well of course it could, but would
it really reduce the time on the final stone if used as middle stone?

The norton 4k is not a splash and go stone as far as I know.

Thanks.

Sharpman

Get yourself some sigma power stones made for plane blades.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharpMan

A1=A2?

Are you saying that the 2k pro could be the middle stone between
the 1000 and the final polishing stone? Well of course it could, but would
it really reduce the time on the final stone if used as middle stone?

The norton 4k is not a splash and go stone as far as I know.

Thanks.

Sharpman

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Air Quenched in general.

I go to 5k after 2k but not for very long. Then 8k, but on A2 steels I don't use pros after 2k, they will work but not as good as glass stones for A2. On A2 you might be happy with 1k, 2k then if your finisher is good on A2 and cuts fast, you would be fine. Even if you feel like you still need anthother intermediate stone, your blades will last longer starting on a 2k. It is very different from the 1k.
The glass stones are much better in the higher grits for A2.

If you check out the Japanese grit comparison chart in the attachment within this archived post by smokintbird here it might be instructive. Helped me figure the shapton and naniwa stones out in terms of progression. They have a different system than the USA charts but use the same numbers. As grit goes up the differences increase to the extent that a 5k shapton pro or superstone is equivalent to an 8k norton. Make sure you open the attached grit comparison chart, not the post he links to in reference to something else. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

If you check out the Japanese grit comparison chart in the attachment within this archived post by smokintbird here it might be instructive. Helped me figure the shapton and naniwa stones out in terms of progression. They have a different system than the USA charts but use the same numbers. As grit goes up the differences increase to the extent that a 5k shapton pro or superstone is equivalent to an 8k norton. Make sure you open the attached grit comparison chart, not the post he links to in reference to something else. :)

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That makes a little more sense out of it Jimmy.

Sharpman, the question you ask is not as easy to answer as you think because those steels you mention that are designed for longer edge life also cut way different on stones. The scratches will be shallower for sure. Good luck.