Can you confirm if this is a ToS

Hi, I have just found this forum thanks to Piet. I am a green woodworker and have been collecting various sharpening stones for a few years now. I seem to be getting hooked on finding, identifying and using natural stones. I am also slowly learning to shave with a straight razor.

Is this stone a ToS? It was sold to me as a Charnley Forest. The surface has been flattened and what you see is in the stone, no dirt etc on the surface

http://straightrazorpalace.com/%3Ca%...%22%3E%3C/a%3E
http://straightrazorpalace.com/[IMG]...ellman/tos.jpghttp://straightrazorpalace.com/%3Ca%...%22%3E%3C/a%3E

sorry to say it is not CF.

Its not a CF. I believe it is a Llyn Idwal. Here's a shot of the end of mine.

They are very good finishers in my experience with 1, and from what I have read in the limited literature available. They come from the cliffs around a very small lake in Wales.

Attachment 59277

Welcome to SRP, Sean.

Neil seems to be pretty sure these are ToS hones in this post. I believe it's similar to this labeled ToS, although it's not an exact match. Would help if someone was to step forward with a picture of an identical labeled one :)

In this thread a mysterious hone is identified as being a Llyn Idwal. I have one just like it. I can take a picture of one of each together to show the difference.

The Llyn Idwal does have a barely noticeable ripple pattern and has speckles.

Thanks for your replies. So we think it is a Llyn Idwal, but it could possibly also be a ToS. I suppose this is the way it goes and there are some stones out there that never get identified. It is exactly the same as the picture you posted Scipio and similar to the bottom and right hand side one Piet posted.
I will wait in the hope that a similar boxed and identified stone appears.

i would say from the swirl pattern its a Llyn Idwal, Oilstone. Reputedly very similiar to Charnley Forest Hones, albeit harder, but was in less general use on account of it's being more expensive. Records go back at least as far as 1798

Welcome to SRP. All the tams I've seen have many more dots/speckles. Here are a couple of photos of a tam I sold some time ago.

In my experience, Tams do not have a surface shine to them, while once the Idwal has been lapped and used a few times it develops one, just like a Charnley does.

Another not so much 'test' but feature of tams is their square or short rectangular end profile/cross section. The Idwal may be comparatively more rectangular and perhaps even irregularly shaped i.e. curved at the bottom.

Finally, the ability to make slurry. Tams make one fairly quickly, which a Llyn Idwal can take a while and still only raises quite a thin slurry.

Tams also have a noticeable smell to their slurry which to me smells like sea shells, while the 'aroma' of the Idwal in my opinion is weaker. Of course this is entirely subjective for some tobacco smokers I know of can not detect such scents.

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Originally Posted by Scipio

Its not a CF. I believe it is a Llyn Idwal. Here's a shot of the end of mine.

They are very good finishers in my experience with 1, and from what I have read in the limited literature available. They come from the cliffs around a very small lake in Wales.

Attachment 59277

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I agree with Scipio. It looks like Llyn Idwall. However the quarry is about 0.5 mile away from the lake.
Quality of the hone is simmilar to CF.

I almost forgot, I know how much we all love a bit of 'porn,' so here's my Tam.
Attachment 59397
Attachment 59396

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Originally Posted by adrspach

I agree with Scipio. It looks like Llyn Idwall. However the quarry is about 0.5 mile away from the lake.
Quality of the hone is simmilar to CF.

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Stephan - thanks, I didn't know that - I thought the stone was found around the lake. And to think I was gona go there one day looking for them lol...I would have been looking in vain!

Piet - I reckon your tam is actually an ark. The test is if there is a slight degree of translucency on the surface, then it is not a tam. i.e. some of the spots appear slightly below the surface.

This is my ark, it is about 8-10k level and gives a respectable shave, but it certainly is not a tam.

[ATTACH]Attachment 59399[/ATTACH]

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Originally Posted by Scipio

Stephan - thanks, I didn't know that - I thought the stone was found around the lake. And to think I was gona go there one day looking for them lol...I would have been looking in vain!

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To the lake easy 20minutes hike from the car. To the quarry 1minute from the same car.
Why I say Llyn Idwall are those brown spots, svirling of black spots, colour. Also have a look if there is not anywhere like little translucent ish flake. Every time i was lapping one of those these crack lines/flakes kept appearing

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Originally Posted by adrspach

Why I say Llyn Idwall are those brown spots, svirling of black spots, colour. Also have a look if there is not anywhere like little translucent ish flake.

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Exactly - those orange/brown spots are not present in Tams. Couple that with any translucency and its more than likely an Idwal.

Scipio, I don't see a real difference between your Ark and your Llyn Idwal.

The stone I showed does have an orange spot and a smaller version I sold had a couple of them so it is the same stone as the one in the op. I think they are pretty hard but I don't remember them being particularly hard to lap though.

I still have my doubts because of Neil's posts, but if these stones can be found at Llyn Idwal then that's what they are, whether they've been rebranded by others or not.

If these are in fact Idwals then what is this mystery stone and the one I showed :D Neil has a couple of them at his website, they also have flaking going on, are incredibly hard and very fine.

Piet, there is a difference between my Idwall and the supposedly Arkansas, but it is hard to see in photographs. The Idwall is far finer and smoother, while the Ark has more dots in the surface, though also has a flaking to it.

Comparing them side by side, there is some difference, but again the photographs don't pick up what I can see visually. They contrast considerably in person..
[ATTACH]Attachment 59401[/ATTACH]

heres a few spoted arks

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Originally Posted by eleblu05

heres a few spoted arks

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Your one on the far right is most similar to the hone I have which I was told was an ark...would you say its an ark? It definitely not an Idwal or a Tam that I can tell you.

Looks to me like a variant of the orange spotted one, Scipio, similar swirl pattern. How does the back look like?

Piet, I know they look similar in photograph, but they are very different. The orange spotted one (which is identical to Adrspach's Idwal which I saw at the Razorcon) leaves a fine finish similar to a Charnley.

The other one is coarser, but still could be a finisher. The spot pattern may look similar, but the dark green spots on that one are of a different composition to the rest of the hone's matrix, possibly of a different material, where as the one which I believe is an Idwal has a smooth consistency, giving me the impression the marks are just markings, not inclusions.

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Originally Posted by Scipio

Piet, I know they look similar in photograph, but they are very different. The orange spotted one (which is identical to Adrspach's Idwal which I saw at the Razorcon) leaves a fine finish similar to a Charnley.

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Adrspach posted a stone from Idwal before. Is that the one?

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Originally Posted by Piet

Adrspach posted a stone from Idwal before. Is that the one?

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No, it had orange spots and waves like mine.

all three stone in my pic are all soft ark's the big one in the middle is gray with black spots and when i applyed oil the spots bleed alittle the color is redish purple around the spots the stone on the right is dark gray with black spots and its soft ark i can tell by looking at it the feel and the writing on the box lol

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Originally Posted by Scipio

No, it had orange spots and waves like mine.

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I can confirm the hone on the link is Llyn Idwall but not the one Scipio has seen at Razorcon. I could not take all of my stones and in that time I was more concentrating on Llyn Menyllyn hones and TOS.

piet heres the back of the stone

Here are the fronts and backs of two of mine and the big one from before. The two small ones look a bit different but the backs match. The big one looks a bit similar as well. The color schemes of an arkansas can be similar but I don't think they have the swirls.