Which 1K should I get along with a Naniwa 5K/8K/12K set?

Ok, so I've been reading up and watching all the videos on honing and hones, and lapping, etc. I don't plan on getting any hones for a while after getting my first razor(which I haven't gotten yet, soon). Basically I plan to get an SRD 3" Latigo and either paste the webbing side with .5 Cromium Oxide, or get another strop/paddle strop to paste, still unsure which option. Either way I plan to use that to refresh the edge while I develop my stropping technique for a while before I get into honing, at which point I'll probably get a second razor so I have a fallback when beginning to practice honing; maybe even get a third, cheapo razor to practice on instead.

Anyway, after weighing my options and looking at the many hones available, I'm pretty set on a Naniwa 5K/8K/12K/ set from SRD along with a DMT 325 for lapping said stones. And use the pasted strop as a finisher. What I am unsure of is what hone to get in the 1K range, and if a jump from 1K to 5K Naniwa would be too much or just fine.?

As I understand it the Naniwa 1K is not the same grit as for example the Norton 1K, yet it is a fast cutter regardless. My doubt here is whether the Naniwa 1K is enough for the initial bevel setting of a dull blade requiring a new bevel(pardon the redundancy). Btw, I don't plan on restoring razors; but I'd still get a 1K for say if I ruined a razor for any reason and needed to reset the bevel, and also possibly to use it fro sharpening other knives at home(read:kitchen knives).

Would a Naniwa 1K do said job? Or would different 1K stone be better? I searched for an answer on the forums and wiki but got mixed results. Some have said the Naniwa 1K is great at setting bevels(I think Lynn uses one for that purpose?) while I also read others saying they found it too soft bevel setting and need to use a Norton 1K or other stone.

Sorry for clogging the place up with yet another noob question >_>

I personally like the 1k Chosera, out of the 3-4 1k stones I have tried this is so far the best feeling and fastest stone.

Thanks for the opinion! I hadn't looked at the Chosera, will now.

Anyone else?

I reccomend keeping with what you have, if you end up getting the naniwa set then get a naniwa 1K, like wise for shapton, norton etc. some synthetics work well as a system weather progressive honing or finishing with a pyramid.
having said that I personally go from norton 8K to shapton 16K ergo side stepping my own advise.
Also most 1K's are pretty cheap (not that you or I'd actually use a whole one in our lifetime) so if whatever you get wears out quickly or you simply don't like it, just get another IMO ^_^

I didn't like how soft the Naniwa SS 1k felt. I like the feel of my Shapton 1k and my King 1k. I've heard the King is slow, but it's worked really well for me. The nicest I've used (only a few times) was the Naniwa Chosera 1k as Stefan recommended.

The 1k to 5k jump is totally doable. I do it regularly.

I also think the SS 1k feels softer than I'd like, but it's still a great hone. Especially if you don't hone a ton of razors. It is definitely a very capable bevel setter. I would be afraid to do a knife on it, though, for fear of gouging and/or dishing the hone. But I know next to nothing about sharpening knives, so you could probably ignore that part.

The Chosera is my ideal recommendation, but it's expensive. I wouldn't recommend it to a new guy, and not to someone who doesn't set a lot of bevels either.

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Originally Posted by KalgoorlieBoi

I reccomend keeping with what you have, if you end up getting the naniwa set then get a naniwa 1K, like wise for shapton, norton etc. some synthetics work well as a system weather progressive honing or finishing with a pyramid.

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Thanks. That's the logic in my mind, but I didn't/don't know how much of it is based in actual fact. As to what I have, that's why I'm askinbg this here now, I don't have anything yet and won't for a while. I want to get it right the first time so I don't end up paying more than I need/want to :)

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Originally Posted by heirkb

I didn't like how soft the Naniwa SS 1k felt. I like the feel of my Shapton 1k and my King 1k. I've heard the King is slow, but it's worked really well for me. The nicest I've used (only a few times) was the Naniwa Chosera 1k as Stefan recommended.

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Another vote for the Chosera eh? Duly noted.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

The 1k to 5k jump is totally doable. I do it regularly.

I also think the SS 1k feels softer than I'd like, but it's still a great hone. Especially if you don't hone a ton of razors. It is definitely a very capable bevel setter. I would be afraid to do a knife on it, though, for fear of gouging and/or dishing the hone. But I know next to nothing about sharpening knives, so you could probably ignore that part.

The Chosera is my ideal recommendation, but it's expensive. I wouldn't recommend it to a new guy, and not to someone who doesn't set a lot of bevels either.

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Thanks, nice to hear the 1K to 5K is doable and that it comes from personal experience. As to the knife sharpening, it is very similar to straights form what I've seen; the main difference is that you usually start with a stronger grit(say a 200 or 300ish) and can finish on something like a 1K or 2K depending on the task of the knife. And of course you need to hold the blade at a consistent angle. Not sure about the gouging/dishing concerns though, will have to research that as well.

I assume you do not recommend the Chosera for me(I wouldn't be setting many bevels, if any for a long while, and I'm a new guy) because it is a fast cutter and it expensive no? I'm assuming the 1k is softer so it takes more strokes to set the bevel on it than a faster cutting 1k no? And I guess the feedback you get is different than harder hone?

Hmm, many variables to consider. I guess I could get the Naniwa and then if I find I need/want the Chosera I could just get it anyway. It does make sense to get the cheaper(the SS) one first as well.

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Originally Posted by HColl

Ok, so I've been reading up and watching all the videos on honing and hones, and lapping, etc.
....snip...
Anyway, after weighing my options and looking at the many hones available, I'm pretty set on a Naniwa 5K/8K/12K/ set from SRD along with a DMT 325 for lapping said stones.
...snip...
What I am unsure of is what hone to get in the 1K range, and if a jump from 1K to 5K Naniwa would be too much or just fine.?

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Since you are asking the school solution is
to stick with a single maker. Their progression
"progresses" systematically....

So if you have a set of Naniwa hones it is better but
not required to stick with Naniwa. And yes if you
buy a Chosera you will be happy with it to the point
that you will want more of them :) many more.

The jump from a 1K to a 5K (one maker) should be just fine.
If you are honing dozens of razors a day you will
want shorter jumps to speed things up. Modern
water hones like Naniwa, Norton and Chosera cut
gosh durn fast.

I love to watch the swarf pattern
when honing one of my magnetic razors.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Since you are asking the school solution is
to stick with a single maker. Their progression
"progresses" systematically....

So if you have a set of Naniwa hones it is better but
not required to stick with Naniwa. And yes if you
buy a Chosera you will be happy with it to the point
that you will want more of them :) many more.

The jump from a 1K to a 5K (one maker) should be just fine.
If you are honing dozens of razors a day you will
want shorter jumps to speed things up. Modern
water hones like Naniwa, Norton and Chosera cut
gosh durn fast.

I love to watch the swarf pattern
when honing one of my magnetic razors.

---

Thank you very much for your reply. I've been reading on the Choseras and yes they seem to be of very high quality, so your comment " if you
buy a Chosera you will be happy with it to the point
that you will want more of them :) many more" definitely hits home, as I wouldn't want to buy the one and end up wanting to buy the whole set along with the SS Naniwas, or replacing the SS all together; and I know I am perfectly capable of being seduced by the Choseras, as I am with any high quality item, that's why I ended up here after all :)

I have used Norton 1k and shapton 1k. some Japanese 1kish stone.
i can say norton is a lot aggressive then shapton if we compare two.
i have used recently mostly shapton and now it is life going to end.
I am looking 1k aggressive stone which will not put deep scratches same as dmt1200?"
if anyone knows link and name please let me know.
thank you

Depends on how many razors you hone...

The Naniwa SS 1k is very capable...

However out of just about every 1k out there and yes I am an idiot and have owned, tried, or still own them all, I haven't missed many...

The Naniwa Chosera is way above the rest in overall performance and :D price, it is truly a professional's hone....and like Dylan already said most people don't need it...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Depends on how many razors you hone...

The Naniwa SS 1k is very capable...

However out of just about every 1k out there and yes I am an idiot and have owned, tried, or still own them all, I haven't missed many...

The Naniwa Chosera is way above the rest in overall performance and :D price, it is truly a professional's hone....and like Dylan already said most people don't need it...

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Excellent, that's good to hear. I doubt I'll get the Chosera to begin with simply because it's like three times as expensive as the SS :dropjaw:

And as you say, it all depends on how many razors I'll be honing, and as I plan to own just two razors for as long as I can(doubt it'll be long haha) I figure the SS should be fine. If I never find the need for the Chosera I can always get it as well.


Thanks to everyone who commented, I'm glad I could make such a confident decision on what hones to get so early on(wish I could have done that in regards to razors before getting my Shavette...), so thanks again for helping me decide on that last stone. Of course it could change between now and when I finally acquire my first hone; could be a while, maybe a year or so, maybe earlier, who knows. But for now, I'm happy. I also considered a coticule, the whole one hone does it all concept is definitely very appealing, but the somewhat steeper learning curve regarding it was not. I'm not even gonna mention the Japanese naturals...

If I ever take a serious gander at those I'm screwed...

Nobody's mentioned the Shapton pros.
I just got the 2,5,& 12k & these things amaze me at how fast they cut carbon steel & how flat they stay.

I was pretty impressed with Bester's 2k, also hard n fast but yet to try the 1k.
Would love to try the Chosera 1k tho :boohoo:

Like many of the experienced gentleman has already said, the Naniwa SS 1K will serve you perfectly. It is a great stone and it works well with what you are planning on buying.

I would like to add though, that if you would like to use your 1K stone for other knifes as well, the Chosera 1K is a great option.
I use the Chosera for both razors and Knives.
I have dedicated one of the sides for razors exclusively, to avoid any gouging or dishing from other uses.

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Originally Posted by Birnando

Like many of the experienced gentleman has already said, the Naniwa SS 1K will serve you perfectly. It is a great stone and it works well with what you are planning on buying.

I would like to add though, that if you would like to use your 1K stone for other knifes as well, the Chosera 1K is a great option.
I use the Chosera for both razors and Knives.
I have dedicated one of the sides for razors exclusively, to avoid any gouging or dishing from other uses.

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Hmm, that is a god idea... BY side I assume you mine the side of the stone, as in the part that is not really meant for sharpening, not the opposite side?

I have been using either the SS 1K or Chosera 1K going on a couple years now and the results from both are always good. I am using the Chosera more these days and am on a quest to wear one out. Doesn't look like that will happen in the near future.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by HColl

Hmm, that is a god idea... BY side I assume you mine the side of the stone, as in the part that is not really meant for sharpening, not the opposite side?

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Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my post about that.
I meant to say the opposite side of the stone.
One side for razors, one side for knives.
The edges are not used. By me that is:-)

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Originally Posted by Lynn

I have been using either the SS 1K or Chosera 1K going on a couple years now and the results from both are always good. I am using the Chosera more these days and am on a quest to wear one out. Doesn't look like that will happen in the near future.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Thanks for the response Lynn. I'll probably end up getting the SS, but knowing me I'll probably end up wanting to try the Chosera as well at some point to see the difference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birnando

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my post about that.
I meant to say the opposite side of the stone.
One side for razors, one side for knives.
The edges are not used. By me that is:-)

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Ah, gotcha. For some reason I thought only one side was meant for sharpening...

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I also think the SS 1k feels softer than I'd like, but it's still a great hone. Especially if you don't hone a ton of razors. It is definitely a very capable bevel setter. I would be afraid to do a knife on it, though, for fear of gouging and/or dishing the hone. But I know next to nothing about sharpening knives, so you could probably ignore that part.

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You're right on there.

If the OP can't find a low-grit Naniwa SS that is without the base (double-sided) to use one side for cutlery than he shouldn't use the Naniwa for cutlery and should get a different stone.

Cutlery is crude by comparison. The fun is in the sharpening, but the edge's quality and smoothness is no where near what is required for a shaving edge. I successfully use a three dollar india stone (aluminum oxide) 8x2 to sharpen most of my cutlery. I've used the flat side of the Norton silicon carbide flattener (it's not flat, argh) and my DMT8C (which is what I now use to lap my stones) to rip off a lot of steel for repairing an edge or rebevelling. After that it's on to the india stone, from there maybe my DMT1200 or another stone that is my favorite finisher. Trust me, when you realize how easy it is to hone a kitchen knife to a level of smoothness that makes it difficult to cut into the skin of nightshade fruits (chiles, tomatos) then you realize all those fancy higher-end hones don't have much practical use for most kitchen cutlery.

I took a culinary student's inherited cutlery kit (brother was apparently involved in butchery) and layed into it with ferocity. Big 'ole scimitar, a VG-10 Deba, all sorts of blades. Man, it was a blast. Almost the opposite of open razor honing. Two very different kinds of sharpening. All I needed was a few stones, and after the major metal removal the brunt of the work was a cheap india stone. Lapping the aluminum oxide was done carefully with a diamond encrusted tower-grater type cheap sharpener (neither of the DMTs). All in all about six sharpeners including the lappers, but really only 3-4 would be needed for the chore.

Using naniwa SSs for cutlery is a definite no-go, says I. And yes, I've used cutlery on Norton's 4k (mine is cursed so used it for major edge reshaping/repair) so I know what I'm talking about. Use the right tool for the task.

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Originally Posted by AxelH

You're right on there.

If the OP can't find a low-grit Naniwa SS that is without the base (double-sided) to use one side for cutlery than he shouldn't use the Naniwa for cutlery and should get a different stone.

Cutlery is crude by comparison. The fun is in the sharpening, but the edge's quality and smoothness is no where near what is required for a shaving edge. I successfully use a three dollar india stone (aluminum oxide) 8x2 to sharpen most of my cutlery. I've used the flat side of the Norton silicon carbide flattener (it's not flat, argh) and my DMT8C (which is what I now use to lap my stones) to rip off a lot of steel for repairing an edge or rebevelling. After that it's on to the india stone, from there maybe my DMT1200 or another stone that is my favorite finisher. Trust me, when you realize how easy it is to hone a kitchen knife to a level of smoothness that makes it difficult to cut into the skin of nightshade fruits (chiles, tomatos) then you realize all those fancy higher-end hones don't have much practical use for most kitchen cutlery.

I took a culinary student's inherited cutlery kit (brother was apparently involved in butchery) and layed into it with ferocity. Big 'ole scimitar, a VG-10 Deba, all sorts of blades. Man, it was a blast. Almost the opposite of open razor honing. Two very different kinds of sharpening. All I needed was a few stones, and after the major metal removal the brunt of the work was a cheap india stone. Lapping the aluminum oxide was done carefully with a diamond encrusted tower-grater type cheap sharpener (neither of the DMTs). All in all about six sharpeners including the lappers, but really only 3-4 would be needed for the chore.

Using naniwa SSs for cutlery is a definite no-go, says I. And yes, I've used cutlery on Norton's 4k (mine is cursed so used it for major edge reshaping/repair) so I know what I'm talking about. Use the right tool for the task.

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Excellent, thanks for that. Ideally I wouldn't want to have to get so many hones just for the knives, I'll take a look later on to see what are my options.

I have a question, thought I'd spare the space and not start another thread. Would I actually benefit from pasting a strop with CroX and finishing on it after using the Naniwa 12k? I know technically the .5 micron is smoother than 12k, but would I notice a difference?

I ask because as I said in the OP I was planning on pasting the webbing side of my would be first strop(3" latigo from SRD) with .5 CroX and use that to touch up the razor, or do it on a second strop. But seeing as I plan on getting the Naniwa 5k/8k/12k set eventually, I'm wondering if it's worth the money/time to use the CroX or if I can just finish up and touch up on the 12k and then go straight to the strop?

Finishing with a paste after the 12k will definitely give you a different feel. As to whether you like it more or less, that is largely personal preference. But I do think you'll like it at the very least as something new to try and play with. I'd say go for it.

Remember, it's not the grit size, it's how the edge is effected by the full package (the hone or the paste and what the paste is on). A great example is that the same paste on different surfaces will act differently.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Finishing with a paste after the 12k will definitely give you a different feel. As to whether you like it more or less, that is largely personal preference. But I do think you'll like it at the very least as something new to try and play with. I'd say go for it.

Remember, it's not the grit size, it's how the edge is effected by the full package (the hone or the paste and what the paste is on). A great example is that the same paste on different surfaces will act differently.

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Hmm, I see. *sigh* Why is it that when I try to save money you guys say stuff like that and make me want to get more stuff :D

I'm thinking of simply getting the Naniwa set(or maybe the 12k alone to begin with $80 would sound better to my gf than $180...) and learn to set the best edge possible with that before considering a pasted strop. I figure if I can use the 12k properly it'll be easier for me to not screw up on the paste, especially after having the added practice with the normal strop. I imagine this would be wiser than using the pasted strop before getting the hone/s?

Definitely nothing wrong with maintaining your razor with a pasted strop. You could even start with the 1, 5, and 8k hones (with or without the pasted strop), as adding a 12k without getting great results off the 8k won't help you anyway. But that only works if you are going to learn to hone from the ground up.

I personally think it's easier to learn from the top down, in which case you would start with the 12k, then the 8, then 5, then 1. Add in the paste if/when you feel like trying it out.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I personally think it's easier to learn from the top down, in which case you would start with the 12k, then the 8, then 5, then 1. Add in the paste if/when you feel like trying it out.

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This has been my thinking as well. I figure the hardest part to learn would be how to set the bevel properly and knowing when it is actually set. Thus why I don't plan on getting the 1k until I actually need it. I was thinking of getting the 5/8/12k set because it came out cheaper. But I only save like $6(at least on SRD) by getting the set instead of each stone individually. So I'll probably get 12k first. It is almost $80 by itself after all, but I figure that should let me maintain my first razor for a few months right? Hopefully enough time to let me get a second professionally honed razor, which I can then use to compare the other one with :)

I'm probably over thinking this, but it's my nature with everything I do, and spend money on.

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Originally Posted by HColl

So I'll probably get 12k first. It is almost $80 by itself after all, but I figure that should let me maintain my first razor for a few months right?

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And then some :)

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

And then some :)

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Awesome. Glad to hear.

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Originally Posted by HColl

Hmm, I see. *sigh* Why is it that when I try to save money you guys say stuff like that and make me want to get more stuff :D

I'm thinking of simply getting the Naniwa set(or maybe the 12k alone to begin with $80 would sound better to my gf than $180...) and learn to set the best edge possible with that before considering a pasted strop. I figure if I can use the 12k properly it'll be easier for me to not screw up on the paste, especially after having the added practice with the normal strop. I imagine this would be wiser than using the pasted strop before getting the hone/s?

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The 12Ksuperstone is super, you may not need any more.

In my personal opinion a lightly pasted strop takes the harshness
from some edges that is common after honing but so does a couple
shaves.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

The 12Ksuperstone is super, you may not need any more.

In my personal opinion a lightly pasted strop takes the harshness
from some edges that is common after honing but so does a couple
shaves.

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Yeah, I'm gonna be getting the 12k by itself. For now I'm not planning on getting a pasted strop(or making one rather). If I find I can't get a smooth anough edge on the 12k and stropping...I'll go back and practice some more on the 12k until I get it. From what I've read(and as you just wrote) a pasted strop does smooth it out a little more, but one can get a very good edge off of the 12k, so that's what I'm aiming for. I'm basically looking for as basic yet effective setup I can get to simply maintain an edge for a long time. I'm really enjoying the lathering and shaving process as a whole, but I doubt I'd have the patience and skill to get into full on razor restoration, i.e. going from reseting a bevel to finishing. Plus I'm not really very interested in honing other than doing it to maintain my razor so I can keep getting a nice shave :D

That may change of course, but for now this is the plan. I really appreciate everyone's help, this honestly is the forum with the most helpful, kindest members I have seen, and I've been from the lowest rung of the internet ladder(*cough*4chan*cough*) to some of the biggest sites with some form of a community(read:forums/blogs/etc.) out there. But I guess it takes a certain type of person to get into such a lost art as traditional Straght Razor shaving and men's grooming; proper men's grooming, like all gentlemen used to do.

Anyway, just thought I'd say thank you.